Halifaxtiger

Lot of superlatives here and for once they are fully justifiable, because speedway just doesn't get better than this. I had an inkling that the tie wasn't over (despite Sunglasses Dave's mocking dismissal of my prediction of a 20pt Mildenhall win) but couldn't believe my eyes as Mildenhall, aided by some Saints misfortune, poor riding and questionable tacticals, tore into Scunny and the huge lead accummulated on Friday had gone by heat 9. The Fen Tigers needed just 10 points from the last 4 heats and had mugged Scunny good and proper, only to be mugged themselves at the very end. Throw in some brilliant racing (typified by an astonishing heat 10) and the whole league not being decided until the last few yards of the final race of the final meeting (I genuinely thought Heeps had done it)and we had a spectacle that provided a fitting (more than fitting)end to a fine NL season. Great credit to both teams, managements and track curators for a final that not just the NL but British Speedway as a whole can be proud of. Congratulations to the Saints, commiserations to the Fen Tigers. The latter at least have the consolation of a most successful season, the KO Cup and the near certainty of their team coming to the tapes in 2012 (something never taken for granted in West Suffolk).

Not the best of meetings but better than the play off match a few weeks ago. Stoke were badly hit by injuries but i dont think they would have won on the night even if all riders had been available such has been their drop in form - they are a shadow of the team that topped the table right now. Take nothing away from mildenhall though. They bounced back from the previous nights beating superbly and may even still be in with a shout this afternoon. I am especially pleased for all those at west row who stuck with the club through the dark days of the last few seasons ( phil k, troy & nicola, dick h, tim & carol, dennis w, norwichkev and more). They deserve it for their loyalty through some tough times and even the most biased member of the opposition could not begrudge them a bit of success. Commiserations to stoke. You were equally deserving but someone had to be beaten here

Completely agree and surely last night was a total vindication of the decision to run the Saints, given that the team was packed with home grown assets. As to your latter point, you had better tell that to a few of the bigots in the EL/PL sections of this forum. Completely unnecessary dig Squall might be a Sheffield fan first and foremost but like many he clearly likes his speedway wherever it might take place, and there's no better track to take in other meetings than the EWR. Give your subjective rubbish a rest. Led by that turncoat Sunglasses Dave, no doubt. Bloody pothunters It was good to see you there mate and even better to see a PL fan who is fully prepared to give the NL the credit it deserves. You are in for a treat on Sunday, too. If anything, in my experience the track at West Row is even better.

I can. I always was a lousy tipster. Mind you, I don't think there are many who would have predicted that score line. It says everything that Heeps scored half of Mildenhall's total becuase he was really the only Fen Tiger who got to grips with the opposition, Hargreaves & Jacobs in particular being very disappointing indeed. Despite the result, there was some very entertaining racing and while Scunny did most of it the best ride of the night was Blackbird's determined last bend second place in heat 7. Its a tall order for Mildenhall because I don't think they have got a score like that all season at home. I am not writing them off just yet, though.....

Some how I doubt if it will be forgotten again. Truly unbelievable. Looks like one of us will Setting off in 15 minutes.

No, I am not saying that at all. Read the list of experienced and/or older riders I have listed because none of them were guests. If you want a few more I will name them as well. This is what Rob Godfrey has said in the article, giving it as a reason for pulling out of the NL: 'There are too many teams out to win at all costs and bringing older riders in'. He did precisely that when Scunny were a stand alone club, evidenced by those riders I have named. When his young riders were out, he didn't hesitate to bring in experienced riders (not as guests but members of the squad). What he didn't do was promote a young junior instead (unless that junior was highly competitive). That means he was perfectly prepared to use older riders to win matches when Scunny were a stand alone club. Win at all costs ? I'd say so. Make no mistake, I don't blame him for that. What I can't stomach is that now that Scunny's position has changed he is trying to stop others doing exactly the same thing. Just to show I am not blinkered, this aside I have nothing but the greatest regard for Scunthorpe Speedway and have said so many times.

I am certainly neither blinkered nor subjective and, knowing Nikko, neither is he. I would say I have made no secret of my regard for Scunthorpe Speedway and, in particular, their model set up at third tier level. Indeed, I have agreed with Montie's comments in respect of the NL side this season. The thing is though is according to that article you are against older riders being introduced into the National League and a 'win at all costs' attitude, presumably aiming that comment at the likes of Mildenhall, Dudley, Stoke and others. What sticks in my craw is that is exactly what you did when Scunthorpe were a stand alone NL side, yet now you object to it (albeit not as violently as in the past). Whilst it would be true to suggest that some of the most talented young riders in British Speedway learnt their trade at EWR, you were never averse to signing experienced riders to take their place if, for some reason, they were not available or there was no youngster good enough to be highly competitive at NL level. As such, there is a clear change in opinion and practice (in fact, it is a 180 degree one) almost certainly provoked by the changing status of Scunthorpe's NL side. Personally, I'd say there was no change to approach this season; the current members of the Saints side have just improved significantly. As I have said, I prefer the viewpoint of Dale Allitt. He recognises that there has to be scope in the NL for both stand alone and double up clubs and that both have to have regard of the others needs and cannot have it all their own way at the expense of the other. Its a viewpoint that is unselfish, sensible and practical and, because of that, its highly persuasive as well. On a final note, I certainly don't expect you to reveal the financial commitments to riders on a public forum. However, I believe it has been admitted on this forum in the past that Scorpions riders were indeed paid above the fixed NL rate during 2006/7.

Me too.

I think you are way off. Very close indeed.

Surprised at that one. Never easy getting guests (especially to replace Lambert) but when I saw Garrity for Belle Vue at Loomer Road he was distinctly unimpressive. With respect to Greenwood (and I recognise that replacing a reserve is even more of a nightmare) Mildenhall could have a field day at the bottom end. Fen Tigers to take the KO cup for me.

James Cockle, Paul Cooper, Ricky Scarborough, Stuart Parnaby, Jonathan Bethell........ All experienced riders (or at least not youngsters) and they aren't alone, believe me. The point is Rob Godfrey was never above chucking the odd experienced older rider when it suited the needs of him and his team and that's precisely what he is objecting to now. The only consolation is he is not as strident as he once was. I would agree that it will be a sad day for not just NL speedway but British speedway as a whole if Scunny give up on third tier racing. Having said that, its a perfectly understandable decision in the circumstances. I would agree on this seasons team. Over the period 2006/7, if one of the likes of Auty, Tully, Haines or Woffinden were unavailable, Pl riders (such as Cockle & Cooper) were brought in to replace them. That's what I mean by win at all costs. As Kev accurately says, why have Smethills when you can have Nielsen ? One can only imagine the howls of indignation that there would have been from Scunny if a view that condemned bringing in older riders to support the team and insisting on sticking to £10/point, 10p a mile had been made in 2006/7. You simply can't change your viewpoint to that degree to suit the needs of your own team - you have to remain reasonably consistent. Speak to Dale Allitt, for a start. His viewpoint is one of accepting that the clubs in the league have different agendas and tailoring the league itself to suit all parties as much as possible .

Very bad news if that is the case because Scunny have been one of most successful teams at capturing new assets with the potential to make it in the PL. Have to say that while I can appreciate that it is a drain on resources I am surprised at this decision for that reason alone. I'd also take issue with the barbs aimed at other NL clubs, particularly the stand alone ones. When Scunthorpe were a stand alone third tier club they were definitely win at all costs, paid over the odds and the likes of Wayne Carter and Buzz Burrows were hardly there for development. Its a criticism I have made before; you can't follow a set of policies when you are a stand alone club then complain about others doing exactly the same thing when you are not.

Looking forward very much to this - two pretty evenly matched teams on two of the best racing circuits in the country. Here's hoping that the meetings get the weather and the crowds they deserve - last time I looked, Scunny seemed OK at least. I'd say the way the NL play offs turned out - with 4 teams all in with a chance of winning - has been more of a success than the PL (which has fizzled out in a mass of meaningless matches) or the EL (which only one team was really going to win). While the championship and KO Cup wins of Glasgow and Newport in the PL have been rightly hailed as victories for the smaller, less successful sides its also brilliant to see Stoke and Mildenhall in particular in with a shout. There are some extremely dedicated and loyal fans at both clubs who have stuck by their teams week after week over many lean years (not least my old mate Norwichkev) and they deserve at least the chance of some silverware.

Scunthorpe v King's Lynn. Brilliant virtually from start to finish and a big improvement on the preceding PL match. In truth, its rare I see a bad match at EWR. The other was Mildenhall v Scunthorpe - an absolute cracker. Mildenhall v Stoke was almost as good.

If I remember correctly, Jayne, Michael Lee was anything but complimentary in his comments on the Mildenhall website. The thing is the surface went from one which a friend of mine (a regular spectator at Buxton and poster on this forum)thought was so bad he and his Dad stated they would never attend again to one that Paul Starke said was the best he has ridden at Hi Edge - and that was the next week !! If I have trouble accepting that the track is prepared the same every week (and I have no reason to doubt your word) given the apparently remarkable change its easy to see why. Its very true to suggest that Hi Edge is more affected by the weather than almost every other track but I don't think that can account for track preparation completely. As an example, I was told that Stoke's poor surface in the play off semi was as a result of a hot, windy day, only to travel down to Mildenhall and find an absolutely superb racing track despite temperatures pushing 90 degrees (and Mildenhall ride in the afternoons). I really don't think that the question of track surfaces can be overstated. In my view, given that the quality of the racing is determined by the quality of the track it is single most important factor in British Speedway's ability to grow and prosper. I don't think that 1 rider in 7 being a foreigner will affect British youth development disastrously. They also add a considerable amount of colour to the league, something that is necessary for its financial well being - look no further than Cameron Heeps. I also don't think Buxton is an acquired taste - it can be a very decent racing track on occasion. Not the best, but not the worst either. One thing we can agree on is that losing it would be very hard to stomach. In truth (and I have made this point elsewhere) the level at which you watch speedway does not determine how good the racing is. I am now pushing 70 matches this season and of the best 5 two of them are NL (at Scunthorpe and Mildenhall). The problem is that there are those who continually look down on the third tier because the quality of the rider is lower. I agree with greyhoundp here (not just on the points limit but virtually everything he has said). If there is only a certain pool of riders and the desire is to have everyone reasonably equal, then the points limit has to come down if new teams are in. You're absolutely right that the product will be diluted and some may have inflated averages, but that would be better than a have's have not's and have more's league dictated by money.

Very true. I know Barrie fits his work round his racing while Paul Kirby (Adam's dad) hasn't always found it easy to take time off. No one doubts its a very dangerous sport indeed - personally, I think are all one brick short of a hod to ride a bike without brakes at speeds of 50mph and more - and accidents are, sadly, an almost inevitable part of racing. The thing is though is that while poorly prepared surfaces ruin the entertainment for paying spectators that pales into comparison with the effect they can have on riders. Buxton that day was as bad as anything I have seen, even exceeding Belle Vue v Dudley. I think Jayne got upset about the criticism on here but, in my view, it was fully justified and to her great credit it wasn't like it again for the rest of the season.

There are a number of reasons for that. Most clubs that have made a comeback after a considerable amount of time usually do well at least initially because there is an existing fan base (Plymouth, Scunthorpe, Workington). Having a town centre track that is easily accessible and a good stadium helps - there's nothing wrong with Buxton, but Monmore Green it isn't. I am not saying that Dudley would, but they most certainly could (ask King's Lynn about that one). I don't think many riders make money from NL speedway but being offered £20 a point instead of £10 clearly makes a difference. I'd be interested to know if that has been the case over several seasons, Dean. Most riders (particularly the very young ones) I know on base rates have to be supported by parents, grandparents etc (hence why they have 'Grandad' on their kevlars). One engine blow up can cost several weeks earnings, and a trip to Plymouth (when they were in the NL)is nowhere near covered by 10p a mile (by the way, Bodmin is 30 miles further ) Its absolutely true that money does not guarantee success, but it does make it more likely to happen. No sport will prove both points more than football. Without knocking Buxton, they have had something of a monopoly over riders from the north-west (and beyond) for a number of seasons before 2011. With the possible exception of Scunthorpe (who tend to use their own assets), a rider based in Cumbria (like Craig Cook, for example) would have been travelling a very long way for NL speedway had he not gone to Hi Edge. Last season they all came together and, again without knocking Buxton, it was pretty clear that riders like Morris & Garrity were going to be pretty decent at third tier level. I am surprised you don't get that many, Jayne. I do agree with bwdouble, though. I certainly know of two fans who refused to return after a simply dreadful (and I would go so far as to say dangerous) track against Mildenhall. I might have done so myself had it not been the case that Barrie was there the following week and it was greatly (and that's an understatement) improved.

At the risk of being insulting, I would have thought that was rather obvious. Buxton's average gate is in the region of 300, yours in the region of 4 times that. There are no pay restraints in the NL (despite what you might believe) and if Adam Allott fancies a move to Dudley next year (which, in view of his form there this year, isn't that unthinkable) the Heathens can outbid Buxton for his services. Its exactly the same as the other two leagues, just on a smaller scale in terms of wages.

You bit slightly too quickly there, Jayne Forgive me, I couldn't resist. Jack has indeed been talking enthusiastically about next season, though. I'd say Buxton's record in 2010 puts a bit of a dent in your argument, wouldn't you ? Indeed, you seem to be competitive each and every season. Fingers crossed you will be there. Allowing one foreign rider per club would help a bit without damaging too much the development of young British riders.

That looks more promising than ever. I spoke to Ashley Taylor (one of those behind Bodmin Speedway) at Plymouth a week or so ago and he was very guarded and careful indeed, probably stung by what happened last time down there. He did say that the court ruling at Mildenhall is being used as a benchmark for the track and I got the impression that there is a willingness to co-operate between the authorities and himself - certainly there doesn't appear to be any objecting neighbours and I know the planned site is next to a moto-cross track with full planning permission. Every best wish to him. I also heard last week that there could potentially be another new track in the NL, that being conditional to planning permission. Jack Lee was talking enthusiastically about 2012; perhaps Jayne hasn't spoken to him yet

Don't waste your breath (or more accurately your fingers), Malcolm. He obviously doesn't have a clue and therefore can be both treated with contempt and ignored.

Touch wood I will make it tonight (that is if its on) but I can't leave here until 6.45 at the earliest. Come and say Hi - I'll be on the first bend by the picnic tables with the terrible trio.

Bloody Hell, I think I will start my own fan club That miserable git Nikko can be chairman BP always did exaggerate, Andy. I had my shorts on on Saturday and there wasn't a singlre comment. Mind you, Phil K had his on as well

Don't tell me you are coming to the land of whippets, Tetley's Bitter and frightened sheep ? Cheers Jordan Another update around 5pm would be most appreciated. Sadly I can't join you for food tonight due to work commitments Let Wayne have my share

The mists of time have clouded my memory over such races (although I recall an amazing duel between Gordon Kennett & Kelly Moran in the second half at Eastbourne way back in 1982) but what I can say is that they still happen occasionally. The best one I have seen this season (and possibly at any time in many years watching the sport) was heat 11, Plymouth v Redcar 22/07/11. Hughes, Wells, Tomicek and Kus. The thing with this race was that all four riders were involved and all were in each position (1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th) at least once (and quite possibly twice) during the race as there was an astonishing series of moves and passess that started on the first turn and ended on the last. It truly was astonishing stuff and, sadly, all too rare these days.