Halifaxtiger

Do you (and others) actually have any real evidence that Dave Hoggart is solely responsible for Sheffield's team building ? If not, you are merely speculating and the comments you are making about him are both unjustifiable and unfair. Neil Machin is as much Sheffield's promoter as Dave Hoggart is - indeed, in my understanding, far more so. If you wish to start throwing blame about - and I really don't think that is at all necessary at this stage of the season - then make sure your allegations rest on reasonable fact not unfounded hearsay, gossip or guesswork and target the right person(s). I have been critical of Hoggy for bulling his team up and making unrealistically optimistic press releases that neither he nor the team can make good. But if these comments are speculation, he deserves better.

My own version is if it doesn't happen to suit us rule or no rule we'll ignore it. You can have the 'Interests of speedway' or the rule book but you can't have both.

A 'bit dusty' is a minor understatement for the first few heats and I'd say the track wasn't decent but awful at that time - despite Yearbyred's claim that I was being 'spoiled' (which from the reports about previous weeks I probably was). I have to say, though, that after the interval and some track work I thought it was an entertaining meeting - there wasn't a lot of passing but some of the racing was very close indeed. Although nowhere near as good as the first few seasons when STMP was one of my favourite tracks, it was certainly enough to make me come back later in the year.

Don't go there. If he does it, Jordan's face says it all. I can understand your position to a degree on the strength of the side. If the likes of Tigerite and Spinny (who are as passionate and fair about the Tigers as anyone) are concerned there's almost certainly a problem. What I object to is your comment that they are not competitive (which is rubbish) and the fact that you have been quiet since the start of the season and then chosen to stick the boot in when they have a couple of poor results. I made comment about the team during the winter but there's no way I would be crowing about the fact that I might (and might is the word) have been right. Nothing would give me greater pleasure where Sheffield Speedway is concerned than to look a fool with the predictions I made.

I wonder why you have chosen this moment to post. Could it be that for the first few weeks of the season that you were choking on your own venom as Sheffield won their first three home PL fixtures, qualified for the League Cup semi finals and put in creditable away performances at Leicester, Berwick & Scunthorpe ? Haines is averaging around the 6 point mark so how you can say he is 'nowhere near good enough for the PL' is beyond me. With the exception of the Redcar match, Albin has scored at least paid 7 in every meeting at home and his amazing riding style is worth more than that. As I said, there is cause for concern here at some of the low scores, particularly at reserve. But to suggest that Sheffield do not have a competitive team (at home, certainly) is nonsense.

I'd say you had a point - as did I, Spinny and several others who were concerned about the make up. I notice you haven't made any comments about it until the team were beaten at home by Redcar (as have others) and lost at Rye House so your view might stand up - which it probably wouldn't have before hand. I'd say Messrs Machin & Hoggart were wrong about the reserves but as I got it wrong about Hall & Albin that makes us about even. There is cause for concern here but gloating over the fact that you had a point won't help.

The question on that is what sort of reaction he would get when he does. I have had two reactions from critical remarks made on here from members of the speedway establishment (for want of a better term) when I have seen them. One was an abusive rant, completely brushing aside what I was saying (despite the fact that every single person I have spoken to subsequently agreed with me). The other - from King's Lynn's Dale Allitt - was a calm, reasoned and fair response which I accepted and commented on at the time. If it is likely that you would get the first, what is the point in raising it ?

Cook was very impressive indeed - I am not sure what he was riding but he was a lot faster than everyone else, winning a couple of heats by almost half a lap. Even when beaten from the gate by Howe he was in front after only a lap or so. Nasty crash involving Vissing and Auty. As they came out of the 4th bend Vissing picked up grip and fell and Auty smashed into him. I was amazed to see Auty get up and walk away immediately, and almost as amazed to see Vissing get up after a few minutes and walk back to the pits. It was announced that he had a shoulder injury. Very hot ( ) today and the track suffered for it, particularly on the 3rd bend where there was a big blue groove by the end. Gating was all important in the second half of the meeting and Monarchs made a few quick starts when it mattered. Tabaka was also impressive and Fricke promising, Blackbird putting some points in at reserve for Scunny where they have been absent in the past.

Little unfair. What you have to remember is that these lads paid all their own costs to get here and I am sure they would rather be racing than laid up with injuries. Very impressive performance from Williamson.

Problem is they are the riders that Sheffield can't change because they are on assessed averages. Nor could Sheffield use a guest for Hall, so they had to go for rider replacement. I do think that everyone needs to take a step back here. Sheffield aren't the first side to be mugged by Micky Dyer riding at reserve and won't be the last. If he had scored what an opposition reserve for any other team would have scored this would have been close. Stead and Haines did their job and although Wells still didn't perform as expected he wasn't rubbish. Hall was badly missed - he'd definitely have scored more than the 6 (excluding the TR) that R/R got for him. The crucial failure was Albin. He's definitely better than that and maybe, as Hoggy says, this was an off night for him. The one area that Sheffield do have problems in is their frightening weakness at reserve means that any slips from the top 5 and they are in deep trouble. You would expect - even with Dyer in the form that he is - your reserves to beat more than 1 opposition rider in 8 rides.

I think you have a point here. I have never totally been convinced its all about the shape, particularly after I went to the Scunny match last season - by far and away the best I have seen at the track. The surface that day was very different, only to return to a super slick consistency the following week. Its why I believe that Glyn - and make no mistake, I have a great deal of regard for him as a track man, Redcar hasn't been the same since he left - is pandering to riders opinions rather than setting it up for racing.

Bloody priceless

I am certainly aware that my critical comments can do an enormous amount of damage to a promotion but, as far as I am concerned, that's the result of their negligence, arrogance or incompetence and all I am doing is saying that I am not satisfied with what I have got (or will be getting) for my money. That is the same with every product we buy; if its not up to scratch we have a right to state our feelings providing they are reasoned, reasonable and fair and I'd back my reputation as a fair poster on this forum against anyone's. By your view, if you bought a brand new car and it blew up the next day you wouldn't complain for fear of damaging the manufacturer's reputation. That's not just nonsense, its laughable nonsense. It doesn't occur to you that people such as Volty and Spin King are critical because they actually care about their clubs and are desperately concerned that they will go out of business because of the actions taken (or not taken) by their promotions. It isn't just their selfish interests. I always put myself in the position of the person I am criticising. Here, David Hemsley confirmed that track changes would be made - if they have, they are hardly noticeable and haven't made any difference. As someone else has said, if he came out and said he couldn't afford to make changes it would at least be understandable - as it is, you can draw the conclusion that he is simply ignoring or brushing aside the criticism on the arrogant basis that he is right and they are wrong (in my view he isn't and they aren't). I, and many supporters, recognise that speedway tracks are often anything but profitable and also that a debt is owed to some individuals who keep those tracks open (although I'd say that does not apply to either Leicester or Sheffield). That doesn't mean (and this, it seems to me, is what you have to grasp)that they can put on a shoddy product, be exempt from criticism where appropriate and that supporters should simply be grateful for what they have, however inferior.

I think the difference is Poole have gone nuts (utterly justifiably) and they were actually at the track, where as Plymouth haven't and weren't. Its still a match that was called off completely unnecessarily, though, without any thought for the paying spectator. I had planned to go to Rye House in late May; I will be going to Eastbourne (whose weather forecast on Saturday was exactly the same) instead.

Joking and absent riders aside, I am not sure that there is much difference between the call off at Belle Vue and the call off at Rye House on Saturday. I certainly know Plymouth fans who had booked accommodation so they could travel on to Newcastle the next day. EDIT: Beat me to it, Dave.

I'd say you can pretty much ignore his posts. When critical comments were made about the Sheffield line up during the close season, he described the persons concerned as 'mealy mouthed b$$tards' who should simply be grateful that they had speedway to watch. That included passionate, long standing supporters like Spin King whose very reasonable (and reasoned)concerns about the side were to be brushed aside or subjected to aggressive responses. Its little wonder that he has come out with something about Leicester that is very similar. I am sure that everyone at Leicester recognises the role that David Hemsley played in the re-establishment of speedway in Leicester. But that, in no way whatsoever, allows him to be exempt from reasonable criticism about it. Speedway tracks are not charitable institutions run by some benefactor, they are businesses. That means they have a product that they offer to paying customers and those customers have every right to air their view if the product isn't up to scratch. For me, you have all along fairly stated what a considerable number of people at Leicester and almost every away and neutral fan feel about the racing situation at Beaumont Park, and its clear that you have done so at least partly due to your concern for the future of the sport there. More power to your elbow, I'd say.

Dead right and you have every reason to be angry. As to the away fans, they will be anything but placated. The lads I know from Plymouth booked overnight accommodation in the area as they are going on to Newcastle today. They ended up going to Eastbourne instead. What sticks in my craw is the sheer lack of effort to get the meeting on- not for the first time in my experience. I doubt if any complaints about falling crowds at rye house will attract much sympathy.

He certainly got it badly wrong a couple of years ago when I came down for a match, and I went to the stadium and took some pictures to show it. According to xc weather, there were less than 2mm of rain due to fall this afternoon so I get the idea they just couldn't be bothered, which is what I thought last time. As long as there are no complaints about away fans not coming in future because I am sure all will take into account the record of calling matches off when there are 'two clouds in the sky'. I do have sympathy regarding weather forecasts because the met office seem incapable of predicting anything more than Ann hour in advance.

To be honest I think he is better rider (having seen them both perform at NL level. Time will tell. Usual good quality meeting at SBA couple of cracking rides from gathercole. Plymouth need a bit more consistency because if they get it they will be hard to beat. There has clearly been a lot of work done at the stadium and it has improved significantly as a result. I am told, though, that much of the work undertaken can't be seen as it is the form of electrics, wiring and safety. All credit to the promotion. One last thing- and I never thought I would say this - I missed Mike Bowden a bit. While I have no doubt that things will better under messrs Stephens and Taylor I doubt there will be as much to talk about.

Dead right,Paul. I would say that the fixing of tracks to suit riders and/or promotions instead of preparing them for racing is one reason why speedway is in the mess it is.

I'd say you have more to complain about than any Lions fan. While the poor quality of racing at Leicester is blamed on the shape of the track (and I am not sure I totally agree) there's nothing wrong with Redcar where that is concerned at all. When Glyn was on the tractor, STMP was one of my favourite tracks and definitely one of the best in the country but it went massively down hill when he left, and its now a pale shadow of its former self. The thing is it could be as good as it once was - the same cannot be entirely said of Leicester.

I don't think that's true and I think persuasion is another option, but that has its limits. If you have tried (and it could be said that some have on this particular issue) and you're being ignored then it does come down to what you have said.

I certainly don't think his comments were in bad taste and I regard him as a decent announcer - better than that bloke Sheffield have now, for a start. If memory serves me Workington is the third track I have seen him do at least some presenting this season (it might even be the fourth). I also think the last two comments you have made are spot on (and I'll accept your experience of him for the other two). My view was that anyone who makes out that something is special - or a lot better than others have suggested - only for that not to be the case will always look at least a little foolish and that's what I think happened here, and that his motivation for those comments was as much to defend his own team as to attract a crowd the following week.

The thing is I am not sure it was 'banter' (and I was there, unlike anyone who has chosen to defend those remarks). Its fair to say he was bulling Sheffield up (he certainly wasn't doing a 'pantomime villain' act, winding fans up to get a reaction) although whether that was for the benefit of the Workington promotion's gate figures or to ram home recent results to those fans who have been critical of the Tigers line up - he certainly mentioned at least once that everyone had them down for the bottom two in a mocking tone - I am not so sure, although I suspect it was a bit of both. His comments about Albin, albeit in a joking way (he referred to feeding him on 'raw meat'), were certainly not trash talk and its little wonder that some from Workington regard them as laughable given the score Albin got on the night. It did appear to me that you had the Sheffield promoter saying how good his team was - and as I say, I didn't regard that as banter, wind up, trash talk, call it what you will - only for them to be anything but on the track.