Halifaxtiger

Having been very critical of the STMP track in the past I thought this was a pretty good meeting with the racing improving heat by heat and culminating in an absolute purler in heat 15,with Summers, Doyle, ostergaard and Morris throwing everything at each other for 4laps. Best race I have seen anywhere this season.

I must admit my take on this was who the hell listens to a weather report from someone 30 miles away from the stadium ? Completely bizarre. I can well understand the promotions feelings if they were swamped by people ringing up or some didn't attend but publicly abusing a paying customer simply isn't on (and comments of the kind he made are anything but unusual). The point is the message could have been put across with the same force and meaning without naming Odsal Boy or insulting him. Own goal, I'd say.

Coming up for this one. Should be a terrific meeting - providing the track is OK.

Have to agree about the attendance. I was genuinely shocked at how few there were at the track, regardless of it being on the box. The match at Berwick was likely to be a one off and as such a novelty, and the management (to their great credit) really made the most of it. Cheap entry, posters everywhere (some as many as 25 miles away) and bulling up the fact that it was a TV match. To be fair, in the same circumstances I suspect Lakeside's promotion would have done the same and had the same reward. As it was, they couldn't.

Thing is those sort of comments are anything but unusual, and how long would it take for a member of the promotion (or a member of their staff) who is actually at the track to come on here and state what the actual position was ? Bryn Williams does it virtually every week at Lakeside. People are concerned about paying to travel to matches that might be rained off and have every reason to be. Having said that, I am amazed that so many people took notice of someone in Leeds (30 miles away) when they could look at either the Sheffield or BSPA websites. Whatever the case - and I agree the management have a right to be annoyed - that doesn't justify publicly abusing a paying customer. If we are having a 'Richard of the Week' as was suggested, I'll await a mistake by the announcer or the team management and see if they get nominated. Somehow I doubt it. One last point: As someone who studies weather forecasts intently to avoid rain offs, I'd be very wary of accepting Met Office opinions as accurate. In my experience, much better to use XC Weather or Netweather.

You're not a member of the BSPA, are you ? I ask because your view is similar to some that members of that organisation state - basically, take what you are given and be grateful for it. If the gate is down next year, I'll wait for BSI making comments like 'we are wondering if the British speedway public really want a GP in their country'. People paid a lot of money to go to that meeting (because this isn't just about the entry, its about getting there, overnight stays, meals etc) and therefore they have every right to complain if the product is poor. You might have had a great day, but I'd say that every person who is making critical comments about the track is absolutely justified in doing so.

I am usually a fan of Phil's posts and greatly appreciate his contributions to this form but he deserves every cutting word you have said. Fine post

Crappiest bike, crappiest attitude, always falling off, not scoring valid points (can someone tell me what a 'valid' point is in speedway terms, because I always thought it was a convincing argument) - I'll await crappiest van because you're running out of insults . This is what others have to say (all being taken from the pages of this forum): 'kirbys score was impresive kirby was the best of the novices another gritty showing from Adam Kirby Adam really is findng his feet Good performances from Compton,, Boxall and Kirby Adam Kirby certainly has improved Also impressed by Compton and Kirby enthusiasm of Kingston & Kirby Yes Adam Improved as the meeting went on, and had 2 very good and competitive second places adam was leading the Heathens No1 in the one race when Ash brought Adam down, In the others he was competitive, meaning a close up second Adam Kirby is a revelation so far It was a good performance by Adam Kirby' I think everyone can clearly see the difference between those opinions and yours and draw the conclusion from that that you have nothing but an axe to grind. They'll also almost certainly treat your opinions as both and nonsense and disregard them altogether. As I have said before, it would be bad enough if you were slagging off a young rider who wasn't scoring points and becoming a crowd favourite, because they need our support and encouragement. Doing so to a rider who is can only be motivated by vicious prejudice. I used to think nobody could be more biased about Adam than I am. Now I am not so sure.

Not sure who they are lucky for, mate. Just had a count up and in 18 matches this season (not counting challenges) I have seen the home team take full points on only 4 occasions and 6 have been away wins . Perhaps HalifaxJonah would be better................

Give the lad a break, moosetash. He's had a pop at Adam for not scoring points and has had to shut up. He's had a pop at him for falling off and he's had to shut up about that too. He simply has to find something else............. What next, you wonder. Who's got the crappiest van, perhaps ?

I can seriously see this signing doubling the gate at Plymouth. If he does, he'll actually be remarkably cheap. Absolutely delighted for my pals down in the south west.

What for ? In my experience, a not inaccurate description. What is certainly true is that he has done damage to the clubs reputation by publicly slagging off a fan. Why ? You are as much entitled to your opinion as anyone else and some tool having a pop at you at the track shouldn't put you off. At the end of the day, who would have paid any attention to a fan 30 or so miles away from the track ? No-one. Go through the Swindon v Birmingham thread and it is full of quotes about heavy rain and the meeting not being on, and this sort of opinion is hardly unusual. No other track sees fit to publicly abuse a supporter for making such comments. Own goal if you ask me. Pretty much spot on, Matty

It may have escaped your attention - given that you haven't been to a match for nearly ten years - but speedway rarely has second halves now. If it does, they are development league matches, and all of the young riders now competing in the NL have in the past few years taken part in them and earned NL places as a result. Its that 'foolhardy' system that allowed a young man to get a team place aged 15 and on a 3.00 average back in 2006 at Scunthorpe, and thanks to that 'foolhardy' system we now have a genuine world championship challenger because that 15 year old was Tai Woffinden. There is everything wrong with criticism of our youngsters. Whereas the more experienced ones (mostly) take it on the chin or simply don't read the internet, misplaced, inaccurate or strong criticism can destroy a young riders confidence, especially when it comes from someone who hasn't actually seen a match in 8 seasons and therefore has absolutely no idea of the effort they are putting in. As they say in football 'its all gone quiet over there'. I suggest you get your facts right first. Only in one race did Adam start with three riders. In the others he stayed on and the Dudley ones didn't, so he beat them. Moreover, he was (according to someone who was actually there) leading Ashley Morris - no mean feat for a rider who is in his first NL season and had never ridden the track before - when Morris fell. What Adam has done in past seasons is absolutely irrelevant now, and Mildenhall fans have acknowledged the improvement he has made. Its early days, but he's just about doubled his NL average, is beating riders he should be (and some - Danny Halsey - who he shouldn't ) home and away and I think its fair to say that the effort he is clearly putting in has made him very much a crowd favourite with the Kent supporters. Its clear I am very biased where Adam is concerned but this isn't just about him. Its about a so-called fan that abuses, criticises and mocks one of our young riders instead of actually encouraging, supporting and delighting in their successes, however modest they maybe. I was in the pits with young Sam Woods yesterday, trying in vain to bolster his flagging confidence. Your kind no doubt would have been slagging him off. Bluntly, speedway can do without people like that.

I have to say that the men weren't much better this weekend. I am not sure who it was at Plymouth, but in an identical situation to that involving Kirby and Terry-Daley he too excluded the wrong rider.

I can only echo the comments made by Phil K and Adzmft (we might disagree about young Mr Kirby's first bend tactics but you had a far better view than me and I am hopelessly biased). The stadium is amazing, easily the best in Britain. A few more improvements and it could hoist some very big meetings indeed. Terrific crowd (probably around the 2,000 mark), boosted by a lot of Fen Tigers and fans from all over the place - I counted at least 8 different other tracks. The meeting did drag on too long - even taking into account the falls - and that must be a bit of a concern given the curfew. The track wasn't brilliant, as it is slick to begin with and wore away easily. To be fair, the promotion were faced with the trackman's nightmare - strong wind and bright sunshine - so it would be unreasonable to expect a top quality surface. In trying to keep the dusty down by watering, we ended up with a skating rink that was difficult for the riders, and they deserve credit for putting on a show anyway. Robert Branford needs to learn how to ride the last bend. In my view, he should have been excluded when he ran into Ben Morley, and he did exactly the same thing to Stefan Nielsen at Mildenhall a couple of weeks ago. Interesting to read Adz's view of heat 14. It looked a poor decision from where I was and Adam wasn't pleased when he returned to the pits. That certainly wasn't the first shocking decision I saw this weekend (an incident involving Todd Kurtz and Alex Edberg at Plymouth was very similar, and had the same result) so perhaps its about time referee's were made accountable for their actions. Every other person in speedway is, so why not them ? I saw an awful lot of fans not happy about him riding West Row when he smashed into Stefan Nielsen against Coventry the other week.

Cracking meeting, best I have seen on my tour with some excellent racing from both sides. It proved what I have always believed: it's not the level of the league that dictates the quality of the entertainment it's the the track they are riding on. Good to see a track man put a rider in his place where track preparation is concerned.

Early days yet but I am delighted for Adam and his dad Paul who has always stood with him. Keep it up boys, one very happy and proud sponsor.

Much deserved Leicester win. Sadly Plymouth are in disarray and what looked to me like a decent team simply is nowhere near as good as it should be and team changes are inevitable. Ironically the much maligned Kling was man of the match, not unreasonably so. when your luck is down it's down, and Plymouth were victims of a shocking refereeing decision in heat 12 when Edberg took Kurtz off.

Take it from me, Plymouth is anything but a gaters paradise. If you attack the track you can pass anywhere. George English said it is like a mini Sheffield and he's right, but you get the bonus of some very hairy first corners as well.

I don't think there was ever any concern about the weather for this one but I am about half a mile from the track and it is bright sunshine. Seen two last heat deciders in the last two days and I think I will see another with devils taking two points. Should be a cracker at one of my favourite tracks.

I have said before that in my experience Berwick have upped their game more than any other club in the country over the last few years and this meeting was good evidence of that. The overwhelming impression I got was of a promotion that pulled out all the stops to make their TV debut a success. They undetook a targeted advertising campaign, making the most of the TV coverage and the reduced prices and that was always likely to draw in an increased attendance. I'd say that's the biggest I have ever seen at Berwick and I'll be surprised if some of the newcomers don't return. Shielfield isn't a brilliant racers track but it was certainly at its best (or near its best) and produced a highly entertaining match, aided by the closeness of the score. Its often the case that we bash promotions on here and in many cases those sort of comments are both justifiable and reasonable. Its very pleasing, therefore, to give John Anderson and his team a great deal of credit for the way they went about last night, and I'd say they set a standard for others to follow. I can't help but think that had others made a similiar amount of effort we might not be staring the loss of the broadcasting contract in the face.

Quite. I don't have leanings either way. The one thing that TR's have in their favour is that as far as I am aware riders do not get paid extra for undertaking them. TS's would mean that they did. To put it into perspective, all riders earn £40 per point except the top two who earn £60. Double tactical in heat 8 5-1 for instead of 5-1 against. One costs £360, the other £40. That's a cost to a promoter of £320 for one race.......... Neither do I. But I have heard tales that that is the case (from those who are against it that is). On your first point, I would definitely agree. I was only hearing a tale on Thursday about a truly passionate fan who was subject to unnecessary abuse by a promoter. (he's contributed on this thread). When the points system came in, I thought it was daft. Now I actually think it was a very good move indeed. I am fully aware that a lot of people don't like it but I just have trouble working out why. At least you are one of those who are against all forms of tactical changes - which, in my experience, is unusual - because those who rail against it but support tactical substitutes on the basis that they are fairer simply don't know what they are talking about, as SCB has shown. I doubt if anyone has come in - or left - the sport because of tactical rides. In both cases, they'd be daft if you ask me. But people will come to the sport if it is more exciting and tactical rides do two things to make that more likely. First, there's the additional emphasis on the race. Second, they keep scores closer. I doubt if there is a single person here that hasn't seen a dead meeting brought back to life by a tactical change. Do we want dead meetings or live ones ?

These are the sort of responses that we usually get from the anti-TR rule mob. Its wrong, its unfair, its 'ridiculous' - without a single word of justification. If that's the case, why didn't have a big credibility problem in the 1970's when speedway was Britain's second most popular spectator sport ? Tactical substitutes existed then and as SCB has accurately said, they could affect a meeting more than any tactical ride does now. I remember reading with disbelief a quote on here in which a person stated that a friend of his loved speedway but wouldn't go because of the tactical ride rule. I remain to this day unconvinced that that was the truth of the matter, but if it was it was truly bizarre and ridiculous. I can understand people deserting the sport for its cost, crap racing and even seeing their team carved up by the points limits but because someone gets double points ? Daft. If I understood half of this I would probably (I think) dispute it. I have seen some lines on this forum but 'sport that wallows so serenely in it's homemade mathematical soup of defeat' just about takes the cake. The simple truth is that as Bewitcher says closer results are always more exciting to watch and not just in speedway but in any sport. Ask anyone about the best meeting they have ever seen and its almost certain to be a last heat decider - in my case, Mildenhall v Scunthorpe, NL play final 2011. In that case, the riders entered the last bend of the last race of the season with the NL championship still not decided. Breathtaking stuff. Happiness is 40-38 signifies two things: your team has won and its been a close result which, in almost every case, had you on the edge of the seat. It doesn't get better than that. I'm for anything that makes speedway more exciting and hence more likely to attract fans and that includes tactical rides. As soon as a rider puts on the black and white helmet, it means more emphasis is placed on that race for both sets of fans. In addition, it means that meetings are likely to be closer and I can't believe that anyone will actually suggest that that doesn't make for better entertainment. Speedway's tactical ride rule is almost unique (which is why some have trouble grasping it and are critical and/or mocking) but reflects the fact that the differences in the playing area (for want of a better term) are similarly unique. I can't think of another team sport where one teams playing area is twice the size of anothers and a completely different shape and the surface is also completely different. A comparison with other sports, therefore, simply cannot be made.

Come out and go back in. I now have sound.

No reason to doubt your word, Martin - you know a lot more about it than I do. The only thing is that as Hoggy is building a team to a budget, he can't be solely responsible for it. Very difficult to argue with your view of team selection