Halifaxtiger

I said the same feedback from the same source. You already know what they think, so why read it again time after time ? That’s ridiculous. Just because I keep going, doesn’t mean for one second that I accept the way that it is run – in fact, I think you well know that I don’t from my comments on the Belle Vue – Poole thread, where I supported your contention that the match was fixed and condemned the fact that it was even run. In the ‘Nothing Changes’ thread I commented: ‘The truth as I see it is they are all equally complicit in every dodgy and/or corrupt decision because no-one ever does anything about them. I don't think you can have an independent body to run the sport, but you most certainly can to ensure that they stick to their own rules and that decision making is both legal and transparent’. The sooner we have such a body, the better. To reiterate, my view is that there are genuine and very real concerns about the way the sport is run and the effort put in to ensure that a meeting is as good as it possibly can be. Spectators are, to a degree, taken for granted. But that is simply nowhere near enough to stop me having the genuine thrill and excitement of watching four blokes on bikes without brakes and, if I am honest, I do not understand those who walk away because Poole are allowed to call a match off or a bloke puts on a black and white helmet and gets double points for doing so. I’d probably accept your comment that they are being negative about the way the sport is run rather than the sport itself because I make the same comments myself. The difference between us is I am also most ready to give credit where credit is due when I think that a promotion has brought in changes for the better. They are just negative full stop (to be fair, they won’t even know about such changes because they don’t go) and how can you love something but not have a good word to say about any aspect of it ? I suspect the BSPA don’t listen to supporters. But if they do, I think they are far more likely to listen to one who attends 60 matches in a season at 22 tracks than someone who wouldn’t go if you gave him a free season ticket.

I don't think I have ever been misquoted so many times in one post. I actually stated that you should not ignore feedback from whatever source but what you can ignore is the same feedback from the same source that is made time after time. In addition, those who do not go have the right to comment but their opinion cannot be as valid on many issues as those who do. To illustrate that, how can someone who does not go comment on presentation, track quality, the overall standard of stadiums, whether the toilets are acceptable or a thousand other things that only people who attend would be able to know ? Answer is they can't. They won't know (other than by hearsay) that the standard of presentation at Scunthorpe increased spectacularly this season, that Plymouth have built a terrific new stand, that Kent's stadium could be used for GP's, that the burgers at Berwick are fantastic or that Belle Vue's track has improved beyond recognition. I know all of that is true simply because I have been to all of these stadiums. Where I agree with Tsunami is that it is better to pursue those who have never been before than those who will never come back. Listen to the latter, by all means. But if its not reasonably possible to satisfy their demands, forget them because you will be throwing good money after bad. Were have I said that diehards would not walk away ? I haven't, because I know people like that myself. I merely pointed out that my old mate White Knight (who bends my ear about rulings every time I see him) would have gone by now if it bothered him that much. I think you know that I get exasperated at best by the corrupt practices in the sport and the fact that I believe that many tracks simply do not do everything possible to attract fans. But that will not ever stop me going, because my passion is watching four blokes on bikes without brakes and, as I said before, I never think of the undoubted failings of speedway when the tapes rise and the clutches drop. I also profoundly believe that those who do stop going for the above reasons are, at least to a degree, cutting their nose off to spite their face. What I will admit to very much having trouble grasping is how people who claim to love the sport do nothing but make negative comment about it and never attend meetings. I must admit I am also having trouble grasping the difference between them and those who hate the sport, because isn't that precisely what the latter would do ?

It would be interested to hear what the 'right changes' you would like actually are. If truth were told, I suspect I would support all of them. The only difference between us is I don't let stupid rules, corrupt practices and selfish promoters put me off going anywhere (the only thing that does are crap track surfaces). While I think you should most certainly be listened to, if the changes you want are not brought into effect then I'd say it would be a no brainer to chase a never been bothered instead, wouldn't you ?

I have to agree with Redcar Racer. That is an extraordinary decision.

I think if you were being driven out you would have gone by now (and I, for one, would have deeply regretted that). You don't like some of the rules but you do like four blokes on bikes without brakes and that is what its all about at the end of the day. Some of the dreadful, corrupt decisions leave me exasperated but that is almost completely forgotten when the tapes rise and the clutches drop. I just don't understand why someone who doesn't like the sport, doesn't have a good word to say about it and wouldn't go if it was free stays on a forum that is devoted to it. To me, that makes no sense. Based upon his opinions he's not a speedway nut. In fact, he's anything but. Age is relevant in the sense that speedway needs young supporters and converts. The likes of you, I & Tsunami are knocking on and we need others to replace us in time. With the exception of the crowds, I think speedway is almost exactly the same as it was when I went as a nipper in the 1970's.

While I fully appreciate your circumstances (and those of others), I always think that someone who says they love speedway but never goes is a bit like someone who says they love ice cream but never eats it. It certainly doesn't stop you commenting on many aspects of the sport(to me age is mostly irrelevant) but, in my view, your opinions cannot be as wide or informed as someone who actually attends, especially if they have a great deal of experience of the sport right across the country. I should say that I also find that those who do not go tend to be overwhelmingly negative in their posts. Those who do go tend to be more mixed in their opinions and that's how it should be because its not all black - there have been some real attempts by many tracks this season to attract paying spectators by one means or another, and they deserve credit for it. I must admit (and at the risk of being insulting) I am wondering why you choose to be a member of this forum and keep posting if you don't like speedway (in its current form, which is most unlikely to change) and wouldn't go if it was free. If there was something I didn't like and ahd absolutely no intention of going I most certainly would not be part of a forum that discussed it. I would say anyone who ignores feedback is foolish but it is most definitely a question of sorting the wheat from the chaff because there will be those who make ridiculous demands in that feedback. To repeat, the same feedback from the same people received time after time is worthless and I think that is the point Tsunami is trying to make. Why concentrate on someone like yourself when you can try elsewhere ?

As usual, Arthur, fair point. I cetainly don't think you should ignore feedback but what you can ignore is the same feedback made time after time by the same people. Many have an axe to grind and, as Tsunami points out, give them a free season ticket and they still wouldn't come. I think Tsunami is saying that given the limited budgets speedway tracks have it is better to concentrate on gaining new supporters (and keeping existing ones)rather than pursuing those who have gone and quite possibly won't come back. I agree. To put that into perspective, I received some quite appalling service from a garage a little while ago and despite the fact that I gave them feedback they keep sending me stuff by E mail and through the post. They are totally wasting their time. As to keeping the 20 existing ones above, why not just ask them rather than someone who has left ?

Agree completely Why waste your time, money and effort on those who aren't going to go again no matter what because there are certain aspects of the sport they don't like ? That's daft. I must admit I struggle to understand why some continue to comment on the sport on this and other forums when they do not attend meetings and have no intention of attending. As you rightly say, they have left so why hang on merely being negative ? One thing that can't be overlooked is that you have been there and done that. There are a lot of people on this forum who have all the bright ideas in the world about why the sport is (apparently) going down the pan but you are one of the very few who has actually put his money where his mouth is and opened and run a track (pretty successfully, I'd say). And yet people can't stop opening (or more accurately, attempting to open) new tracks. I am aware of at least 5 locations where people are trying get speedway off the ground - and I have heard about another where that might be the case - and they are being prevented not by poor crowds, the BSPA or anything to do with the sport but the lack of decent sites (in one case) and obtaining planning permission or other red tape (in all the others). Personally, and based upon my travels around the country, I'd say 2013 was definitely more successful than 2012 for speedway in this country, principally because of better weather conditions. No-one would dream of saying that speedway is in the peak of health but I don't believe (and have never believed) that it is in terminal decline.

Never understood it myself. My natural reaction was not to be pleased that my team was getting an advantage, but to wonder whether the rider was OK. Every speedway fan knows that when a rider falls he risks injury, possibly seriously so. Whatever a team might gain from an opposition rider falling, it is no cause for celebration at all and at any time. A year or so ago, I was at Coventry when they held both two minutes silence and two minutes applause for Lee Richardson. In heat two of the meeting two Peterborough riders went into the fence. The celebrations, given that we had only minutes before paid tribute to a rider who had paid the ultimate price in a track crash, were sickening. While I think all this talk of Matt Ford as Darth Vader is nonsense (and I agree with virtually every word he has said above) until someone can give me a good explanation why that match at Belle Vue was abandoned at heat 11 rather than heat 10 I will be convinced that the result was fixed. That's cheating, without a shadow of a doubt. No-one made a complaint because it is passively accepted by everyone else. Indeed, I suspect that if someone had they would be the ones who were shafted from all sides, rather than those who were cheating in the first place. In my experience - because this is far from the first occasion and it won't be the last - its the way the BSPA works, and shows just how rotten and corrupt that organisation is. Absolutely correct.............but some tracks are worse (far worse) than others, believe me.

Agree completely If its so obvious that they have cheated, why hasn't your promoter (or, for that matter, any promoter) done something about it ? Cheats only get away with cheating if others do nothing and, in my book, are therefore absolutely complicit. If you want to start pointing fingers, I suggest you look at a place far closer to home than the south coast.

Any idea why ? No rain forecast all day !

I have been told that Rick Frost changed his opinion. He apparently deeply regrets that he sided with Coventry. I didn't have a problem with what Coventry were saying but I most certainly did with the way they went about it. In fact, if they had handled it better we may now have the changes that they proposed.

I actually have a lot of time for Cook and Douglas but my point was what have they done since May 2009 ? Sod all by the looks of things. Its all very well making an annoucement of that nature but if you don't follow it up its both worthless and meaningless. I think you are absolutely right in that the decisions that come out of the SCB are grist to the mill of the conspiracy theorists because they only ever provide rulings, not explanations for those rulings. You could argue that they never provide reasons simply because those rulings break the laws of the sport and are twisted to suit the needs of individual promotions. I have always said that the creation of the rule book must be left to those who run the clubs, ie the BSPA. However, rulings on disputes between clubs must be made by an independent adjudicator with no financial interest whatsoever, and the SCB are anything but.

I agree. They may have said that 3 years ago, but what have they done in the mean time ? The truth as I see it is they are all equally complicit in every dodgy and/or corrupt decision because no-one ever does anything about them. I don't think you can have an independent body to run the sport, but you most certainly can to ensure that they stick to their own rules and that decision making is both legal and transparent.

No...........but I did think he was putting it in.

To be fair, I thought he really put it in at Newcastle on Sunday.

Very good point When Berwick were awarded a TV match they did their absolute best with the track, lowered prices for entry and were advertising up to 30 miles away with the result that you had a big crowd (easily the biggest I have seen there) and decent racing. Word was that these efforts were much appreciated by Sky and you can't help but think that if similar efforts had been made by EL clubs there's more of a chance that we wouldn't be staring the loss of the contract ion the face.

Fair point and I think if that was the case it is perhaps grounds to have a break. That's absolutely exceptional, though, and I don't know anyone, anywhere, who actually wants to have an interval.

Always good to see you, and you have reminded me of something I meant to mention. All credit to Newcastle for the fact that they have sufficient medical cover to ensure that when a rider gets injured the meeting can continue. The previous night at Workington there was a delay of 45 minutes and at Rye House earlier in the season it was around 90 minutes in exactly the same circumstances. While everyone appreciates and understands the reasons for the delay, I have no doubt it would put new fans off and even test the patience of the hard core. I am sure it costs more, but that has to be matched at just how exasperated people get particularly when there is a solution to the problem. I should say Newcastle aren't alone; when Ash Birks was seriously injured at Plymouth the other night, there was a delay of just 15 minutes.

Then how is it that a lot of other tracks don't have intervals ? I also saw the tea lady taking a tray of drinks out to the centre green at one point. Intervals are absolutely unnecessary and just leave punters standing around (often in the cold) for no reason at all. Situations like last night just serve to annoy everyone.

I think the problems are the same. Its the scale of the problems that is the difference.

I suppose you could argue that as a whole that is true but in fact it is not the quality of the rider that makes a better product but the quality of the track. Peterborough is way better than Buxton, but Mildenhall is way better than Coventry. I think part of the problem is that the EL have taken the sky contract for granted. The contrast between the effort put in by Berwick when they were on the box and that by EL clubs was striking.

To be honest, Barker wasn't much better, he should be scoring more than that. Cracking meeting and a superb advert for the play off system Gate up about 20% (first time I have seen cars parked on the grass outside Tesco for years) some decent racing and a knife edge finish. Fingers crossed for Tungate, the crash was truly awful. Two other things : I thought the new announcer was a bit of a tool last time but he did a very good job tonight. Poor refereeing performance. Whether you agree with riders anticipating the start or not, there has to be consistency. He allowed Lawson, Lanham & Harrison to get away with them then stopped heat 15 for the same reason.

Final score doesn't reflect how close it was for most of the meeting. Some decent racing in front of what looked like a healthy gate. Cookie was untouchable, Fricke did well after being pole axed by Mills. Morris and Howarth impressive.

Had it on good authority that Jensen isn't riding. Had it been the case that he and bech were, I'd have come to this match.