Halifaxtiger

Definitely, but its more than that - its about engagement with fans. For far too long, fans have been taken for granted and served up crap tracks, crumbling stadiums, revolting food, filthy toilets and surly, aggressive - even abusive - PR. Its a major reason why the sport is struggling. In Berwick's programme on Saturday night, Jamie Courtney had a pop at those who no longer go but slag the track and team off from their PC's. I can understand his frustration, but does he really think that is likely to get them back ? Fans expectations will often be too high for reasonable achievement. But if you don't engage, how do you know what your paying customers want ?

I am starting to think that you are some kind of mole within the promotion . You are certainly providing me with a lot of ammunition to fire. Any business that does not take account of what its paying customers think and want is, frankly, insane and asking for financial failure. The 'get what you are given and be grateful' and 'if you don't like it, don't come' attitude that has been so prevalent in speedway is one of the main reasons why it is on its knees. Its PR has been a total disaster, with fans being treated as fools and simpletons and criticism answered with condescension, aggression, hostility and even abuse. I'm no businessman, but even I know that finding out your customers demands and trying your best to fulfil them is a key factor in any commercial enterprise. That means as much engagement with them as possible. Plymouth's response to criticism has been flat out denial, at least one supremely arrogant comment from Mark Phillips that will do him no favours at all and the barring of long term, totally committed fans on charges that are total rubbish. I would say that is precisely the opposite of what they should have done. Fortunately for the sport as a whole things are improving. People like Isle of Wight's Barry Bishop, Belle Vue's Adrian Smith and Redcar's Jittendra Duffil are changing the way that the sport looks at its customers. I suggest that Plymouth take note.

You can very much understand the riders point of view, but they simply have to wake up and see what is happening on the terraces. Any idea that cuts costs all round must be considered. As OveFundinFan has very correctly pointed out, its all very well them complaining about expensive doorstops but they will have them anyway if tracks close one by one due to financial losses.

I don't think speedway's competitions are Mickey Mouse at all but otherwise you are pretty much spot on. The other thing is that in those days speedway was very much a part time occupation for the overwhelming majority of riders even during the season - Mick Bell (a three time British League championship winner and decent second string/reserve in the 1970's) once said that for him it was 'a good paying hobby'. Nowadays, it seems to me that - NL riders excepted - they regard it as a full time job (which is why we have the blight of uncontrolled doubling up) and require payment to that level. Costs have definitely risen, but so have expectations. That simply has to change.

'Bickley done nothing wrong although he broke the tapes' As far as I could see, it was definitely Clegg that broke the tapes (and both Paulco and I had a good view) but if it was Bickley he should have been excluded. It certainly should not have been all four back. Its precisely this kind of bizarre inconsistency that gets referees a bad name. Highlighting a further inconsistency at the starts, at Redcar on Friday Ty Proctor handicapped himself by jumping but the race was pulled back. I agree with your view on this issue but think that all referees taking the same action is far more important.

It was shown to be even worse tonight because Barker fought like a tiger in every race.

What is interesting here is that I am at Berwick tonight and there is a payslip from 1968. Riders were paid 10s a point and 10s a start......

Doesn't cost a penny to get involved with paying customers and the rewards are substantial. There's someone on the Plymouth v Kent thread asking why their promotion should need to explain their actions to fans. Pretty much sums up the situation down there, although to be fair they are by no means the only ones. All credit to Redcar for having a completely different approach

When is the last time you had any rain, Screm ?

Posted 15 minutes ago on the Berwick Speedway facebook page that its still on.

I think what this highlights is just how difficult it is to make a decision regarding whether to run a meeting or not. Its hard enough when the weather forecasts are the same but when they are different - and in some cases entirely inaccurate - that makes it all the harder. I learned a lesson once when I criticised Isle of Wight for calling a meeting off in the face of most weather reports - only for the one they used to be correct. To quote a phrase, even if the promoter gets it wrong, he's right and given the financial loss involved that's fair enough to me. Sun shining brightly in Norham, but I fear we haven't seen the last of the rain.

Now who's being pessimistic Most forecasts say showers from 9am stopping at 6pm. Met Office says 30% chance of light showers after 3pm. XC has 5mm of rain between 10 am and 6pm. Compared to the forecasts last night, that's a drought I think the crucial thing is whether its coming down at start time and fingers crossed it won't be.

I agree with Boz on that one. Had he hugged the white line, Wright would have beaten him. At that stage of the meeting, the major riding line was on the outside or at least mid track.

Very decent meeting tonight Both teams played a part even though the score flattered Birmingham a bit. Redcar were always in control. The Bears will be a real threat at play off time. With an excellent heat leader trio, two firing second strings and a points scoring reserve they will be a handful for anyone. Having been both furious and appalled at the actions of no less than three promotions over the last week or so (and those three won't get any money off me for a while) I was most impressed tonight. For a start, in the programme Jitendra Duffil directly addressed fans concerns (are you watching Plymouth) over entry fees last week, and agreed to fund reductions where necessary. He then went to express his gratitude for the support that he had been given after the previous weeks meeting. The programme also had an interesting article about set ups, which we here a lot about but which to some are a complete mystery. Then we had the brilliant sight of youngsters on the centre green dancing with Smoggy the mascot, some of whom were from the radiation affected arears of the Ukraine and Belarus, who had all been equipped with the requisite Redcar flags. Finally, there was Roy Clarke speaking to a young lady who had just got engaged and the playing of Cliff Richard's 'Congratulations'. All in all, 10 out of 10 for the promotion and to pay them a huge compliment, in terms of family atmosphere you were right up there with Isle of Wight. PS Pleasure to meet Sidewinder tonight but slightly perturbed that he knew who I was. One promotion will definitely have me in their gunsights

Tonight at Redcar they all got it wrong. Every single one predicted rain and there was none.

One visit a year and it could be rain. I am entitled to panic a bit

Looks like they might need them

Do Berwick still have the track covers ?

When Ashley Birks broke his back at Plymouth ( an injury that ended his career) the delay was around 15 minutes while they fixed the fence. They had two ambulances and two paramedics. I stand to be corrected but I believe that Newcastle still do. Injury needn't cause major delay.

If they have not investigated, then these fans are being barred without any substance at all. That's not only unbelievable and unthinkable, it merely adds fuel to the arguments that the real reason is that the promotion simply don't like criticism and that the charges laid are entirely trumped up. I have described the people concerned above. Do they really sound like 'bad eggs' ? The fact remains is that there has been a flat denial that things are wrong at Plymouth. Period. That's unlikely to change in a face to face discussion, and someone contending that things are wrong - and badly wrong at that - is hardly likely to get a reasonable hearing.

One last thing. For as long as you are out, so I am.

I agree. That's a bizarre decision. Morley is averaging way higher than Bowtell according to the club website.

I think you are wasting your time here. You and your pals have been attending Plymouth Speedway for years. You have worked in the track, raised funds for the club, sponsored riders and the team and travelled all over the country to watch the Devils. Few can match that and, lets face it, that's the kind of supporter every club wants and needs. In all those years, not a word has been said about your behaviour. Its nonsense to suggest that you have turned into a foul mouthed sexist overnight, but that's precisely the reason for you and others being barred. I find it hard to believe that anyone is so naïve that they actually believe that. Truth is you have been barred because you have been vocally critical and, far, far worse, a lot of others agree with you. If you were alone, you'd be laughed at. You're not. Personally speaking, I think meeting with the promotion will be an utter waste of time - and they are not interested in talking to people around you because that will blow apart the reason for the ban - because they have flat denied that anything is wrong. What precisely will be achieved if that is the attitude that you will face ?

I disagree. I thought this was a decent meeting. The track was definitely better for the final, though. I count 9 fallers. Not good, but there were 6 at Mildenhall yesterday, 5 at Plymouth on Friday and 5 at Isle of Wight on Thursday, all from 15 heats. That's about the same. I thought that in the final there was some highly entertaining racing, made even better by the knife edge closeness of the teams. Certainly wouldn't put me off going to Stoke again, quite the opposite in fact.

Says someone saying 'bollocks' on a public forum Until the Plymouth promotion issue a clear statement that any person found using bad language will be banned and take clear and ongoing action to enforce it (and that's anyone, not just those that criticise them) your remarks have no credence at all. Speaking to the Dads Army mob last night, they denied any swearing. I suspect, however, that that might have been the case at times. The sexist remarks, however, are just I repeat : how is that that this lot have never been barred - or even accused - in 13 years of attendance at Plymouth ? Or is that in their dotage they have suddenly become intimidating sex pests ? The other thing is the monumental stupidity of barring four paying customers. Its entirely possible that another few, angered by what has happened, will stop going as well. Including entrance fees, programmes food etc over a season that would probably be about £1,000, and that doesn't count any sponsorship or Cornishman Len's rip off race lottery, which no-one ever wins and whose proceeds go to the riders. For a promotion reportedly losing money hand over fist, it seems to me that they are doing their best to lose some more.