Halifaxtiger

That is not borne out by comment on here, because while there are literally hundreds of posts against the double point tactical ride rule there are very very few indeed against tactical changes altogether. In my travels from Plymouth to Edinburgh I have met many who are against the double points rule but only one who wants tactical changes scrapped altogether. Tactical changes have been in force since the 1960's. Until the introduction of the double points rule, to my knowledge (and I have all the speedway stars from 1978 to 1982) their existence and practice has never been seriously questioned.

I agree completely, but there are a lot of supporters who'd sooner see crap racing and their team be almost guaranteed a win than good racing and run the risk of them losing. Because I believe most speedway fans - you are a rare exception - want some some of tactical facility. They shut their eyes to the fact that not only was the old tactical substitue rule more destructive than tactical rides, its reintroduction would cost the sport tens of thousands of pounds in increased wages.

To be fair, it was a bit much..........but I saw that performance at King's Lynn - a King's Lynn side that included Olly Allen and Tomas Topinka - and he was simply superb.

I think its just a question of learning from the last two seasons. Unimpressive teams have cost Sheffield dear in terms of spectators over that time and while its easy for me to say I'd say its less of a risk to put out a decent side at a higher cost than a poor one at a lower amount, and the team needs to be attractive from the start - half way through is no good. Stead, Nielsen, Lawson, ANOther, Roynon, Greenwood and Albin looks good to me and would probably look good to a lot of others, too.

With Stef signing and providing the track is as decent as it was at the back end of last season the Aces will be getting at least one new paying customer on most (if not all) weeks as well.

I think you're right but I am somewhat surprised that finance is playing that much of a part. A decent, play off challenging side would draw big crowds to SBA - Plymouth got bigger gates than many for the last few seasons of struggle. Maybe I am being a little optimistic but Barker simply wasn't the rider for Ipswich that he had been for Plymouth and no-one -but no-one-rides SBA like he does. Davies was basically a second string at Somerset and he is young enough and good enough to step up and Newman is better than that average and is equally young. Finally, as I said, Katajisto was at one time one of the best riders in the PL. The problem is one bad signing destroys the enthusiasm that can be initially built up and that's exactly what the inclusion of Lemon has done. Put Rasmus Jensen in instead and the team takes a completely new - and far more positive - look.

... maybe they don't like the often unjustified criticism (and abuse) from people who proudly proclaim they haven't been for years, but will only post when they see the opportunity to put the boot in. Sometimes I don't know whether .to laugh or cry, there are so many genuine problems with the sport that are worthy of intelligent discussion yet so many posts are on the lines of "Whoa yeah gor blimey mate I fink the promoters are a bunch of idiots........" then go off on some incorrect tangent about some rule they think exists but doesn't or that Golden era when only Englishmen won the world final. The T/R ,Tac sub is classic example. SCB and Bwitcher have explained in the clearest possible terms, that even I can understand why the Tac Sub rule was even more unfair than the T/r rule but still we get people banging on about tac subs, and of course we get thread after thread like this one where mythical friends or blokes in the office are collapsing with laughter because of guest riders or something. That fact is that there are maybe a dozen or so posters that are really on the ball with different aspects of the sport and come up with some really constructive criticisms or realistic suggestions which make for interesting debate, whether you agree with them or not but many more only seem intent on chipping away at our favourite port with nonsense like this thread. As I said to the aforementioned co-promoter, its a matter of sorting out the wheat from the chaff. True, there are a lot of people who never attend (and will never attend again) who choose to be critical and there are others who simply use the forum as method of spouting off about their own hang ups and prejudices about the sport. But its not all like that (anything but) and its not difficult to see who is making fair point and who genuinely cares. On this thread alone, we have some of our best posters (and there's far more than a dozen decent ones) making reasoned comment about (and, in my view, completely rebutting) the initial issue raised. This forum is worth reading for their comment alone, and they certainly do not deserve to be lumped in with the others. Personally, I greatly value the occasional post we get (especially on the NL threads) from members of the speedway establishment (for want of a better description) and as I have indicated, when the co promoter did respond it attracted copnsiderable praise. Surely it is better to read your fans feedback and engage with them than take them for granted and treat them with contempt and derision. Sadly, in my experience there's an awful lot of the latter in speedway.

I am well aware that there are those who appear to make up accounts to suit their own grievances with the sport (and that might be the case here) but experience tells me that what he originally said is plausible at least. I have certainly had football supporters taking the michael out of speedway's rules, be that guests, doubling up or whatever and I am surprised that no-one else apparently has. Having someone compete for one team in a league and then on the next night for another team in the same league is so alien a concept to a football fan that it could easily be a matter for ridicule. I find that those who behave that way towards speedway are so blinkered that they are very unlikely to be persuaded otherwise or that my suggestion that offside is equally daft has some force, so I tend to ignore them. I'd say most of them ignore it because they don't like the often totally justified criticism they get from the considerable number of decent posters on here who care deeply about the sport. Last season, I tried very hard to persuade one co-promoter to come on here and interact with fans. On the single occasion (to my knowledge) he did he attracted wide spread praise for his fairness and honesty. Whoever your customers are (and lets face it, no business can choose them) treating them with arrogance and contempt is a sure fire way to disaster. I don't totally agree with Bewitcher here, but Catseyes wouldn't be the first to make up a spurious post to support his own prejudices.

Fair point. I do, however, think this will be very different

Its better than that, Mike. Barker, Newman & Davies should improve and Katajisto could go up about 3 points if he gets back to the form he showed a few years ago. What I do agree with you on is that Lemon signing will put people off. It only takes one bad decision to ruin a lot of good work (such as getting Barker back) and I'd say that's it. I am pretty sure Bech did so he must have done.

Brilliant news, and there's no way a rider will sign unless he is absolutely convinced that the team will run. My money's on Lawson, but hopefully Stead and Albin will follow. Get Ollie Greenwood in and that leaves 17 points for the remaining three - which could include Roynon.

If Katajisto returns to the form he showed a few years ago in Edinburgh's colours, he could be a very good signing indeed. At one point he was one of the best riders in the PL. One surprise is Lemon re-signing. Rarely heard a good word about him from Plymouth fans last season, his form was poor and, by all accounts, he does nothing but moan and complain. The other surprise is that Jensen isn't there. He looked a class act last season. To me, its more of a gamble than a poor side.

Imagine a rule in speedway where a rider can only go on certain parts of the track at certain times and that is dependant on the position of the opposing riders. I am sure we can all start laughing now - but football has it, its called offside. That's not to be critical, but to make the point that any comparison between the rules of different sports are flawed from the start.

One thing did occur to me : You'd think that Lawson would only turn down Workington if he had somewhere else that was reasonably concrete to go. Doesn't he live in Chesterfield ?

My first point was 4 countries in 4 days in referring to the demands of travel - quite separate from the physical demand. Riders have pulled out of British speedway for that reason. My second was that while I agree that riders don't think about injury (as you rightly say, you simply can't) it is one that no tennis player will ever face - at least not to the same degree. Speedway is littered with riders who have got injured and who have never been the same again, and my understanding is that the main reason Joe Haines quit last year was because of the awful injuries that his friend Ricky Ashworth sustained. As I also said, however confident you might be in your own ability, you're not out there alone. Even if you never make a mistake, you could still end up paying the ultimate price. Brushing aside the possibility of injury so easily and suggesting that it does not constitute a significant demand on a speedway rider is, I think, very wrong. I think that it would be difficult to determine who is actually the very best...........but, to me, there's no doubt that if bikes were standardised the current top riders would still be the top riders. That means skill is of the utmost importance. The only reason I compared tennis to speedway was on the demands of the sport (which was mentioned several pages back). True, the level of fitness required at the top level of tennis is greater than that required of a top speedway rider, but that's just one factor. The sheer courage and daring required of speedway riders is something that tennis players do not need, and that's why I think the demands placed upon a speedway rider are far higher overall. Its not quite as simple as this, but all of us can cope with the demands of playing tennis. Very few can cope with those of riding speedway.

Pure hearsay, but I have heard that 4 new teams (including Plymouth) are coming in. If you run the NL side on the weeks when the PL team are away or don't have a fixture there's every chance that a fair few will go, if not the same number. I have it on good authority that Coventry Storm paid their own way last season.

Not necessarily. Wells clearly had issues last year and you can't blame him taking up the offer of a guaranteed team place at this stage rather than holding on until someone takes over. I think you are right, but as you say everyone plays the game so loan and transfer fees will be paid. Do you know the asking price ? If so, share it with us so that we might judge whether it is reasonable or not. if you don't, your comment has no basis in truth at all. I am sure that Rob Godfrey has said that Scunthorpe's position is affected by Sheffield and Leicester competing in the PL. Fingers crossed for the Tigers, at least someone is 'seriously' interested which must be better than nothing. Its a top stadium, a fine racing track and they have some of the best fans in the business.

So if all machinery was standardised (as many have called for) Danny Halsey would be able to compete 'a lot' with Ward, Woffinden, Holder and Hancock. That's not just stupid, its positively Machinery counts of course but you can spot talent and skill in speedway without that just as much as you can in any other sport. Millions did indeed watch it........in New Zealand. In Britain it was watched by less than 30,000 people - or under half of the audience of the EL match held the same week. No rose tinted glasses here, just a view that the BBC's choice in one case at least was wholly unjustifiable when compared with others who might have been nominated. I am sure that winning the World Championship more than compensated for not being nominated, but that's not the point. The point is why was someone who assisted the Americans - he didn't even compete - to win the Americas Cup nominated over a British World Champion ? As Bewitcher's TV figures show, you can make a case that speedway is twice as attractive as sailing and lets face it, even when speedway was much bigger than it is now it never got the coverage it deserved. To me, this is about the BBC favouring certain sports without any justification over others. I certainly don't think that Woffinden's World Chamionship should be blurred by other happenings in speedway - that would be most unfair. This is about what he has done, not the state of the sport. To apply that to one other nominee, the exposure of arguably the greatest ever Tour de France rider as a drugs cheat should not in anyway reflect on what he has achieved. Andy Murray plays in 18 tournaments this year. If he gets to the latter stages of each one, he'll probably play about 100m matches. Woffinden rides in 3 leagues each week, the SWTC and the GP's (and other meetings, such as the British Final). That's around 100 meetings, but spread over half the time. Some of those who have withdrawn from the EL have cited the demands of travel. Woffinden might well compete in 4 meetings in 4 countries in 4 days, something Murray will never do. I once asked Barrie Evans about injury and he told me that you just don't think about it, so 'compartmentalise' is pretty fair. But I'd say you brush aside just how dangerous speedway is far too easily, suggesting that it isn't much of a demand at all when in fact its a huge one. Every time a rider comes up to the tapes he risks injury, paralysis and death, something a tennis player will never do. In addition, no matter how confident, skilled and able he is, he isn't out there alone - he's also relying on the skill of three others. I really don't think you can under estimate the sheer courage and daring that it takes to ride a souped up 500cc motor bike without brakes at high speed, and its fair to say that while anyone of us here could cope with the demand of knocking a ball backwards and forawrds over a net, very, very few could cope with the demands of speedway.

The last post on the Bristol facebook page is optimistic but Andy Hewlett admits its still going to be tough going. There's a posting on the Leicester thread that there are 'strong rumours' that they will have a team in.

One of the most stupid comments I have ever seen on here. Woffinden rides in three leagues in different parts of Europe, travelling all the time. He also rode in the GP's and World Cup, probably averaging 4 meetings a week throughout the season. Aside from risking his life every time he rides, he did so with a broken collar bone. What's more demanding, riding a bike without brakes at 70 mph with three others in a narrow space or knocking a ball across a net ? Who do you know watches sailing, and America's cup sailing at that ? Speedway is no more of a minority sport than that. Woffinden is a British World Champion (the first one in speedway for over a decade) and earned that right over a season not just in one race. He did so by massively stepping up his game from previous seasons and really honing that the talent that he had. John Leslie is right. Its not about whether your sport is minority or not, its about whether it fits with the BBC. Given a free vote of all sportsmen, he'd have got more support than half of those named. He, and speedway, deserve better.

Lawson doesn't want to ride at Workington.......... Fingers crossed this is sorted, hopefully with the Panthers in the PL. Far, far too good a track to lose completely and one that would be both a major asset to the PL and ideally suited to that standard of rider, as evidenced by the excellent PL fours meetings.

I don't do speedway food, but Berwick is the exception that proves the rule. The burgers are excellent. They're still not good but the plans are in place. I haven't got over sitting on one of the portaloos at Weymouth when a couple of young kids forced the door open. I'd pay more than £15 if the speedway is top quality..... but I am a diehard.

Nonsense. Its the quality of the product - ie the racing - that matters most. Put a dog turd in a shiny wrapper and its still a dog turd. I agree with Ray that most supporters don't care that much about the stadium providing the speedway is entertaining but I can well believe that no matter how good it is some will be put off by filthy toilets, no shelter and revolting food.

To be fair, to me it is completely understandable that if you do not own a stadium you do not spend scarce funds on improving it particularly when the landlord doesn't seem prepared to do so. As such, anything must be on the lines of volunteers providing their own materials. Believe me, there are worse places than Lakeside - Somerset, for example, has no cover at all. The stadium that has stepped up the most over the last year or so is undoubtedly Plymouth and I have been told that much more is planned. A lot of the work cannot be seen as it is in the form of electrics, drainage, fencing etc but the new back straight stand is superb. Scunthorpe has improved immeasurably since it opened in 2005 and Redcar has a new stand. The one with the most potential, however, is Central Park Sittingbourne the home of the Kent Kings. That could undoubtedly be used for GP meetings in the near future (although they would have to sort the track out).

Is he ? That's a pretty big assumption to make. To illustrate the point, you used to go so you must have been 'clearly happy with the sport' - right up to the point that you walked out of the stadium and didn't come back, that is. On my travels (and I know fans from places as a far apart as Glasgow and Plymouth) I don't think I know one that doesn't have some sort of grievance, in many cases both reasonable and justifiable. You only have to read the pages of this forum to know that regular attendees have issues. Accepting that just because people go they are 'clearly happy' is exactly the sort of complacent, take them for granted, get what you are given and be grateful attitude that some (but not all) members of the BSPA and their entourages have towards the paying spectator. Look at the Sheffield 2013 thread and you will see one poster stating that those complaining are 'mealy mouthed b*stards' who should be thankful that they have a track, implying that there is little or no duty on the promotion to attract fans on race nights. That's not just rubbish and not just appalling rubbish, its genuinely frightening. Nearly all feedback is valuable, but surely that from people who actually still go is the most important. While trying to attract back those who no longer attend could easily be a pointless and wasted exercise, actually listening to those who are in attendance might ensure that they will continue to go. If truth were told I am not sure how much feedback they get. While I am pretty sure that individual tracks have surveyed supporters on occasion, Stoke on Sunday will be 206th match in three seasons and I've never been asked for my views. Listening to your paying customers is not a lesson that the BSPA and SCB have learned, and its fair to suggest that they have probably paid a price for that.