Halifaxtiger

You said he was an excellent signing on the Plymouth thread and I agreed. Not sure about you, but its about time I got one right

To be honest, I never thought they were quite as bad as some made out or their first couple of results suggested. Barker, Newman, Jensen, Simota and Katajisto should all be capable of scoring decent points at PL level and only Benko and Reade were gambles. It will be interesting to see how they get on at Hoddesdon tonight and against Ipswich next Friday.

Plymouth really rammed that one down your throat, didn't they ?

Very fair post indeed, Rob In truth, I don't have an issue with what Scunny did back in 2007 and I don't really have a problem with what they are doing now. Indeed, I don't really have an issue with Scunthorpe at all. I rank tracks from 1(the best) to 5 (the worst) and EWR is one of only 4 that gets a 1. The set up is a model of how to create, maintain and improve a speedway stadium. Their record of producing young riders is probably bettered only by Eastbourne back in the 1970's. Its fair to say that the only problem I have is with certain Scunthorpe supporters (although the promotion have not similar statements recently, they most certainly have done so in the past) slamming NL teams for building sides to satisfy the needs of the paying supporters by winning and paying more than standard pay rates to do it and, in doing so, utterly ignoring the plain truth that that is precisely what they did themselves. This isn't about the biggest payer, its about paying more than the league allows. Of course the agenda has changed, I really wouldn't expect otherwise in the circumstances and that is both realistic and fully understandable. What I would expect, though, is a bit of acceptance that the stand alone clubs (and indeed double up ones that cannot have the financial safeguard of double header meetings) need to build sides to win to ensure their very survival. I would say that a Scunthorpe supporter, having been there, would appreciate that as much as anyone.

I thought it was a cracking meeting, both sides very much playing their part. Excellent performances from Stead and Poole and a mention for Nielsen, a win and a paid win including a fine pass of Rosen. All down to personal choice of course but I like the £1 programme. I'd admit the score card is a little small, however. I thought the attendance was up on last years but a little disappointing, although the rain would have played its part in putting people off. EDIT: and whoever said the announcer is improving must be deaf. I lost count of how many mistakes he made last night.

Vog's point is entirely valid. The fact that they started at Scunthorpe on 3.00 point averages is entirely irrelevant (and I think you will find that Dennis started at Boston and Tully's average from Armadale was well above 3) because they started the 2007 season on around 60. If that's not building a team to win at all costs I am not sure what is, and I can just imagine what the reaction from Scunthorpe would have been if they had been told to break it up. In addition, the only true unknown was Woffinden. Auty and Haines both had competed (and, if memory serves me correctly, won) in the U15 championships. They were cherry picked in exactly the same way as Dudley or Mildenhall might do now (the only difference being that neither of those two had ridden for any other clubs), and they almost certainly weren't paid £10/10p NL rates. Of the Mildenhall side, Jacobs, Bates, Mountain, Kingston & Coles have also all started at that team around the 3-4pt mark. To suggest that they (and Cradley, for that matter) merely parasitically prey on others is nonsense. The simple truth is that Scunthorpe built the strongest team ever seen at third tier level and they paid over standard NL pay rates to do it. Now, they grossly object to other teams doing exactly the same thing. That's hypocrisy.

I don't actually disagree. Aside from the damage it will probably do to others gates I don't really have a problem with the Stags team. Its this hypocritical, do as we say not as we did attitude that annoys me.

Lets not forget who set the standard for win at all cost teams in the third tier of British Speedway, shall we ? I'll give you a clue who that was: Its not Mildenhall or Dudley. You can just imagine what the reaction to comments like these would have been from the Scunthorpe promotion and their supporters in 2007,when their team exceeded the current Dudley set up by around an astonishing 20 points a match. No doubt Rob Godfrey would have embraced the suggestion that he would have had to have got rid of around 5 of his riders and shared them with everyone else. Yeah, right The hypocrisy coming out of North Lincolnshire is just incredible. Basically, when they were a stand alone club they built super strength teams to smash everyone else out of sight and paid over the standard rates to do it. Now they are a double up club, their attitude is to demonise other teams for doing exactly the same thing. Its fair to say that their position has changed 180 degrees, and that's absolutely nothing to do with the development of young riders or the future of the sport in this country. Its about what suits Scunthorpe Speedway and nothing else. The contrast between that attitude and the willingness to try to co-operate and compromise indicated by Dale Allitt is truly breathtaking. I have said before that selfishness is one of the reasons why British Speedway is on its knees, and you won't get a worse example than a promotion that changes its views from one extreme to another just for its own ends.

Certainly no need to duck at all. I might not agree totally but what you are saying is pretty fair. It would be true to say that if a team is paying over the NL standard rate the visit by and to Scunny will cost a lot more than normal. That still doesn't affect the fact that even if you were paying £10/10p the Stags turning up could result in an alarming drop in your gate. A lower points limit might be considered (although I have always thought 40-42 was OK) but anything less than 38 and I'd say people might reconsider attending. Payment rates just cannot be enforced and, to a degree, I don't see why they should. Tell Rob Godfrey that the wages he pays his PL team can only be the equivalent of that of those whose budget is the smallest and he'd be most unimpressed. I don't see the difference. What constitutes a developing rider is a moot point. I'd say Joe Jacobs is, even though he is now on his 6th NL season, and that's because of his age and the fact that he has only had one year in the PL. Simon Lambert is another matter. The EL draft has created problems like never before for the NL. In the past, if you had three riders riding at PL level you were unlucky, now Mildenhall and Dudley have two riders riding for three clubs. The draft is a good idea (although it should have been at PL level to my mind) but the knock on problems are significant.

Dale Allitt once told me that we -meaning double up clubs - want it here, they -meaning stand alone clubs - want it there. There must be something in the middle. He's right. What that middle is another matter, but its everyone's interests to work out what it is and it needs everyone to display the sort of willingness to compromise that Dale did. For a Cradley fan, there's a lot of credibility and pleasure in humping Mildenhall (and vice versa) There's absolutely no credibility in humping this Scunny side, and probably very little pleasure. While the hard core will attend week in, week out, there's no question that the more attractive opposition pull in more spectators and that the weaker ones attract less. A team that don't stand any chance of even providing a modicum of entertainment or competition could disastrously effect gates. Its not about what they pay the riders, its about paying punters. Crap opposition will put people off. Selfishness is one reason why British Speedway is on its knees. We need more co-operation and compromise, not less. I remember seeing a 15 year old go straight through the Scunny safety fence in his first appearance at the track - if memory serves me correctly, he broke his collar bone in the process. Last year, he became world champion. Some will make it and some won't, but never write someone off before giving them an opportunity. And which riders in the Mildenhall//Cradley teams aren't developing ? The truth is that there are as many in their teams as there are in Scunny's. Its ridiculous to suggest that a developing rider is a first year rookie and nothing else.

Rubbish. Its a case of balancing the need of training young riders against the financial viability of a business. If a team like Mildenhall put out a similar side they would close within weeks, because people simply won't pay £10-£12 (or maybe slightly less) to watch an MDL meeting. Waco's point that the Stags team could have a serious effect on attendances at other clubs is entirely valid. Why do think Rob Godfrey has arranged nearly all Stags meetings as double headers with the Scorpions ? The answer is because he knows that if they ran as stand alone meetings no-one would go (or certainly not enough to make them financially viable). He is able to do that; Mildenhall can't. What sticks in my craw here is 'the win at all costs' comment. Mildenhall have one rider who might not be termed as developing (Danny Halsey) as do Scunthorpe. Cradley, too, have one (Steve Worrall is younger than Arron Mogridge). What both the Fen Tigers and Heathens have done is put out sides that are competitive and will satisfy their customers but at the same time gives track time and competition to teams full of young talented riders.

Good meeting Compton, Stead and Roynon all very impressive, with Adam denied a maximum by a shocking refereeing decision in heat 6.

That's the bit that caught my eye. An excellent, objective, no punches pulled article of the kind for which Speedway Star used to be renowned. Great stuff

The problem with Stoke Speedway threads is that some of the comments are entirely subjective and made by those with axes to grind against the promotion. If Stoke swept the board in the NL this season and then announced a major stadium upgrade and their return to the PL, there would still be those who were critical and a few more whose silence would be thunderous.

That might be said with the pessimism of a Hammers fan (and you were there, I wasn't) but I think you are wrong. The fact that you only just squeezed home was about the performance of one rider, and all the others could be satisfied with their performances - in the case of Lawson, Bech, Morley & Ellis, more than satisfied. You have certainly one of the best EL newcomers in Bech and one of the better reserve pairings, so its very far very a black outlook. PK is one of the most reliable and consistent EL riders and I have little doubt that this was just a one off.

I think the thing is this isn't just about speedway or even motor sports - its about almost anything. An MUFC fan might find it amusing until he was advised that Old Trafford could, at least potentially, be shut down by one person. The judgement and the law on which it is based is, in my opinion, perverse. How can someone who creates a problem bear no responsibility for it ? I have signed but I will circulate it to people who have no interest in speedway because they could just as easily be affected by this ridiculous decision.

That's precisely what I heard.

I think its quite clear that the track wasn't Mick Horton's fault. What is his fault is the fact that he didn't turn up for a meeting on Saturday (by which time I have been told the track was in such a condition that it wouldn't be ready by Sunday) he didn't call it off on Sunday morning and he let paying customers in before start time. What he did (or didn't do) turned incompetence into a PR disaster and effectively got the stadium management (almost) completely off the hook. Its never easy calling a match off when the Sky cameras are in attendance. But its a damn sight better calling it off early than calling it off at start time. One final point : I have been told this wasn't a BSPA shared event, but an EL one.

I thought it was common knowledge that Buster struggled to get it right immediately after Huggy left but now he's up there as one of the best and has been for several years.

It was, Dave. I won't do it again - better to wait a bit of time getting out of the car park than get your windows smashed.

I arrived late so it was out on the roadway outside the stadium. It was a hire car, too - although I should say that Enterprise have been absolutely excellent. Won't stop me coming again, though, as Wolverhampton is rapidly becoming one of my favourite tracks.

Despite the score line, a very entertaining meeting on a superb track with some excellent presentation thrown in. A good night spoilt only by some a*seh*le breaking into my car.

Quite, Better to stump up a big fee for a track curator than allow this to happen again. I have to say I think most of the blame lies with Mick Horton. While it seems quite clear that he very much has a case about the inability of the stadium management to prepare a track that is largely irrelevant in the creation of the situation that followed. Apparently, it was clear that the track would be in no condition for speedway as early as Saturday morning. Horton then doesn't turn up for a meeting, he then doesn't call it off on Sunday morning- despite being told that the meeting should not go ahead - and he then allows people to pay to go in. You have to ask why he chose to take (or not take) these actions. Had he called it off on Saturday and let everyone know that the reason for that he would have been utterly blameless.

Can I claim compensation for my injuries ? Just thawed out, bloody freezing. Good meeting in front of the biggest crowd I have seen at Brough for a long time. Barring mishap, I think both sides will be in the play offs come September.

And for those who don't.............. http://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/13069/workington-newcastle-7pm-thomas-shield?page=1&scrollTo=234328