Halifaxtiger

I don't agree, up to a point anyway. Track preparation should first and foremost be to suit you and I, the paying spectator. Plymouth is a very good example : in trying to set a track up for the home team, the racing is rubbish and Bob C is not going to go any more. Believe me, he's not alone for that very same reason. Any business that puts the needs of paid employees above paying customers is surely asking for disaster. The great Ivan Mauger once said to riders : 'A track's a track. Ride it'. Providing it is not dangerous, he was right. Finally, - and I have said this elsewhere - its no coincidence that Belle Vue is our best racing track and it has little home advantage.

He would be sorry to see Plymouth go. So would I and many others that don't attend any more. But, as I have said before, I suggest you start pointing fingers a little closer to home should that be the case.

It is within the bounds of possibility that a person may have a home track but be a regular at another As Mike0310 will confirm, Bob is - or rather was - a regular at Plymouth.

Bickley, Kemp, Rowe & Flint all ride in the Championship and Palin will do so next season when he is 16.

“I’d also say that after coming here before when the meeting was called off before the start, and the reports from last week, the track was really good. It was well prepared, and there were no holes and no issues at all.” Quote from the Leicester team manager. Huge step up from last week

I'd say that they set a standard and a blueprint for speedway clubs across the country. Their method is two fold : massive customer care and financial responsibility. Quite simply, they aim to give the paying customer and his family (and the latter is most important) the best night out they can so that he comes back again. Normal business practice, you might suggest - and you'd be right - but speedway has fallen disastrously down on that so many times. Any travelling fan will tell you of the 'get what you are given and be grateful' and 'if you don't like it, don't come' attitudes that have prevailed in speedway. It is one of the principle reasons why the sport is on its knees. Isle of Wight broke the mould. For a start, there is a concerted attempt to promote the existence of the club through show attendance, advertising and school and youth club demonstrations. Then there is the genuine care that they show on race nights, and innovation is paramount. Its little wonder that they have attracted almost universal credit and praise, culminating in a Speedway Star article by one of the sports most experienced and respected journalists. I started banging the drum for Isle of Wight in 2016 and have had no reason to waver from that view. Ironically, it came about because I was critical. Usual speedway club response to criticism is hostility and aggression, even abuse. To my amazement, I got an apology, a remedy and a wish that I would return. I was, to say the least, astonished and I know that I am not the only one who has had that reaction. Underpinning this remarkable degree of care is an equally robust financial policy. Huge effort is put into attracting sponsorship and sponsors and even the smallest are valued and appreciated. Rider pay and other expenses are carefully considered and weighed - no superstar pay here, but you get your money on time, every time. Barry Bishop and Martin Widman have done a fantastic job, and I can see signs that others are following suit. I was hugely impressed at Redcar the other week, for example. On the other hand, lets look at Plymouth. Reportedly losing money hand over fist, criticism is subject to hostile denial and a refusal to accept that anything is amiss - even when opposition riders threaten not to ride. Loyal and long standing fans are barred from both the club forum and the track for questioning the promotion. They are now apparently subject to an SCB investigation. The contrast with the Warriors is a truly stark one.

Cracking meeting and a huge advert for both the NL and NSS. As Neil Drummond said, no other track in the country would have put that meeting on given the amount of rain and it is entirely possible that had it been a Premiership match that would have been off too. There was some high quality racing once the slush was driven off and a knife edge finish,. Massive credit to both teams We don't know the full circumstances of course, but the decisive difference to me was that Kent gave their in form reserve 7 rides, Belle Vue didn't.

There has been flooding in the Stockport area not too far away and there are further showers today. Don't let that put you off, though. Belle Vue have a remarkable record of getting meetings on, so check their website. If you haven't been to the NSS, you are in for a treat.

You're right, it does help to be there. I got my report second hand. Sadly - and I mean that - I won't be going to Plymouth for some considerable time (and that's after I had planned coming next Friday week). After the shambles last week - because I am definitely right about the referee insisting on remedial work before the meeting could go ahead because the track was unfit for racing, two teams wanting the match called off and then further 'extensive' track work being necessary before the meeting could continue - I suspect I won't be the only one. After all, who wants to go to a track where there is a possibility every week that the opposition will refuse to ride or you will be standing around watching tractors do work that should have been done before the meeting started, especially when the promoter has made it absolutely clear that he will be preparing a similar track to last week for the rest of the season ?

That's a misconception. Its no coincidence that Belle Vue is both the best racing track in the country and one that has little home advantage.

I have seen some cheap shots before but that just about takes the cake Having checked the weather forecasts, I thought Rob Godfrey was brave putting this one on. If the track wasn't good, at least on this occasion there was reason for it.

You mistake me. This forum is full of those who can't wait to tear the sport or clubs apart but I am not one of them. I call it as I see it, always have. As evidence, read the Redcar/Birmingham thread. You're right, it has gone on long enough. One last point, though. If there was an admittance that things weren't right and that there was effort to correct them, the criticism from me (and others) would be much less aggressive. Indeed, there might be some support. Thing is, though, there is flat denial that anything is wrong. Bob C's post above confirms that. How can you make an effort to put things right when you refuse to accept that there is anything wrong in the first place ?

He was on the track, you weren't. The thing I really don't get is you seem to think that a referee turning up and instructing a promotion to do track work before meeting can start then having to do the same thing again because it still hasn't been done properly is no problem at all. I have news for you : it is. Its easily solved, too. Do a decent job in the first place. If you can, that is.

Not a word about the work ordered by the referee before the start, the riders complaints and the necessary further work part way through. Absolutely nothing wrong at all. Quite extraordinary. You will know better than me what it was like after the track work part way through, but that's not really the point. The point is that the work was necessary at all. I wonder what you think of Luke Bowen's comments: ' It ain't speedway going round quarter throttle is it ? Bloody circus you got there. Feel sorry for the fans watching that sh*te every week'. He was out on the track too.

Not totally it isn't. True, concessions were dropped - which has been advocated on several occasions by members of this forum - but entry for adults went from £17 to £16. http://www.somerset-speedway.com/news.php?extend.2121.1 http://www.somerset-speedway.com/ticketoffice.php Its a good example as to how a club's reputation can be damaged by misinformation being accepted as the truth.

Witch hunt brigade ? I can say with some honesty I'd make the same comments whichever track it was (and indeed have done so many times). I don't need to be there to form an opinion on the fact that 'extensive' remedial work was needed before and during the meeting on the referees instructions. It is on your forum and the speedway updates site as well as social media and therefore beyond denial. Have you been to Stoke recently ? To their great credit, they have massively improved - something I have commented on, too. Plymouth was not a success under Ashley Taylor but I can never remember anything like this - indeed it was one of my favourite tracks and I said so many times, the little place that rode like a big one. That means it is not the track that is the problem, but the person preparing it. As to closure, you misunderstand me, Bob C, my pals who used to stand on the first bend and probably many others. We don't want Plymouth to close, far from it. We want them to admit they are wrong and change and I, certainly, would take great pleasure if they did so. Based upon what I have read, though, that is something that is simply not going to happen. Should Plymouth close, I would say you should start pointing fingers a little closer to home. Suggesting that that will be the responsibility of those who have been critical is a little like a butcher who goes bankrupt after selling rotten meat blaming customers for not buying it.

I can tell you what isn't a great advert for the sport. A referee turns up, does a track inspection and immediately demands extensive track work before any racing takes place. The first few heats are run and its clear that that hasn't been enough, with two teams wanting the meeting called off (according to the Isle of Wight facebook page). There is then a discussion between riders, team managers and the referee in which it is confirmed that further track work is needed. All the time this is happening those on the terraces are standing around waiting, probably wondering why they bother . That's not good enough, and what might be if it wasn't so is that this is from a promotion who angrily dismissed complaints about the state of the track that had been made after the Kent meeting, and were in flat denial that there was anything wrong at all. This after the absolute shambles against Leicester in mid June. Lets face it, Plymouth have gained a reputation here. I'd point out that it is rare for a referee to get involved in track preparation. If he does, it was that bad. It is very rare for NL riders (in contrast to Championship or Premiership competitors) to refuse to ride. Indeed, I am struggling to remember the last time they did it to this extent. What's also interesting are the scores from this meeting and the one the night before at Isle Of Wight. Plymouth were absolutely dominant, providing 13 heat winners and dropping just 4 points in 16 races. At Isle of Wight, they won just 3 races and Wallinger, Andrews and Extance scored 9 between them from 12 starts. I wonder what could have caused such a remarkable turn around ?

To put his ethos a bit more into perspective, he was at Plymouth last night. By the account I got, the referee ordered extensive track work before the meeting started. When it did, the surface was clearly still dangerous and further work was ordered (the Isle of Wight facebook page states two clubs wanted the meeting calling off). You can just imagine how some promoters would have taken the opportunity to put the boot into Plymouth (and, in truth, that would have been at least partly justified). I have it on good authority that Barry entertained children by giving them a taste of riding a speedway bike (albeit while it was standing still, there's a film on the Isle of Wight facebook page) chatted to spectators and assisted with the track work by manning a tractor. More power to his elbow

He simply doesn't miss a trick. No other promoters go on the BSF never mind trying to arrange a lift for one fan speaking on a thread totally unconnected with his club. It was something of that kind that turned me into an Isle of Wight advocate over 3 years ago and I have never had any reason to waver from that. I think you're right Truth is you have to call it as you see it. You might not always be right - and you are often not popular as I have found out several times - but at least you are being honest. Speedway is neither all positive or all negative, and never has been. There are good and bad points to every club and almost every meeting, and most if not all have more of one than the other. For that reason, - and as you have said - the posts of those who see just one side or the other lack credence and value and are almost always motivated by their own prejudice. To be fair to Trees, if she has a major role within the supporters club being critical is difficult simply because of how close she will be to the promotion.

To my knowledge, cutting prices has been tried. As I have indicated earlier, Belle Vue did it and it failed. Under John Anderson, Berwick tried it. They didn't continue, so presumably it didn't work there either. If its a 'successful business tactic' why is that no-one can be found to put the money up to guarantee any loss just in case cutting prices doesn't work ? After all, according to you - and others - you can't lose. Care to put your money up to prove you are right ? Thought not Belle Vue costs £18 to go in. Cutting the cost to £15 - which according to at least one poster isn't enough - would require an increase in gates of 20%.Cutting it to £12 - one figure mentioned - would require an increase of 50%. Is that realistic, especially in the short term ? Your comments are indicative of why some promoters regard the BSF as a haven for 'keyboard commandos' who have all the ideas but won't risk a penny themselves. In this case, they're right. You are right when you say that cutting quality and increasing price can be disastrous. Decreasing the price and increasing the quality can be equally so.

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific and said that I have never seen an advocate of speedway entry price reductions who is so confident that they will work that they will put up their own money to back it. Speedway is indeed different : while I am certain that some who believe in price reductions in business will back them - we see it often enough after all - that simply does not apply to those who have an identical view regarding speedway entry prices. The simple truth is that a cut in prices is a massive financial gamble, and its one that those who support it are only prepared to take if it risks others money, not their own. The day that someone who believes in price reduction puts up their own capital to ensure against potential losses is the day I will take their argument seriously.

Just had word that the referee has ordered remedial track work for tonight's meeting after complaints from the riders. I'll await another denial. Edit : three races in an hour. Edit(2) : riders walking out.

While I know nothing about legal challenges, top table members or penny pinching, I heard that there was a lump sum payment. A big one.

The problem with cost reduction is it is a huge financial gamble. You are relying on substantial additional numbers turning up and there's absolutely no guarantee that they will. In addition, they also have to like what they see enough to come back again and again and again............. I have never seen an advocate of price reductions who is so confident that it will work that they will put their own money up to back it, and its very easy to gamble with another persons bank account. I can recall a post some years ago referring to Belle Vue dropping the price to £10 and getting a much increased attendance. They did the same the next week and the crowd figure dropped. By the third week they were back to usual crowd numbers and over the three weeks they lost money when compared to charging full price. The Lakeside free meeting held a few years ago (when thousands turned up) shows that there could well be a market for speedway, but I understand why no promoter is willing to cut prices in the hope of attracting it.

This thread torpedoes any suggestion that all the posts on this forum are negative. Quite clearly, do it right and fans can be lavish with their praise.