Halifaxtiger

Worrall passed Nielsen in heat 14 otherwise I think you're right. It was still a very entertaining meeting, heat 11 being the highlight The Aces were too inconsistent and disjointed and only Palm Toft (another battling performance), Nielsen and especially Nicholls can be happy with their scores. Indeed, that's the best I have seen Scott ride this season. Worst sight was Zagar bumping onto the centre green as Nicholls was busting a gut to catch Batchelor & Kildemand. Very disappointing.

Shut up you annoying female. Its bad enough putting a post on the wrong thread without you gloating. I blame it on the fact that I am getting sun stroke in Manchester.

Not as good ad Plymouth but still a decent meeting - what I saw of it, anyway. Anyone who says you can't pass at Ashfield hasn't been this season . Impressed with Lykke and Perry but Sheffield were disappointing. They should be better than that. Always good to catch up with Paulco and Lioness and on this occasion with Tigerite and the legend that is Sunglasses Dave.

I think I have been hit by some kind of curse. I got an insert at Glasgow yesterday and another at Belle Vue tonight - the latter programme being three months old and neither anywhere near as good as the Edinburgh wrapround !

Put it this way,mate. If you knew Lioness you'd be supporting Glasgow too.

(gulp) I Will be supporting Glasgow on second thought.

If its half as good as the last match I saw at Ashfield, we're in for a treat. I'll be supporting the Tigers.

Better than me, Mr B. I made it all the way there (although I did get a pint with the Big Taximan in the Black & gold which made the trip worthwhile). I blame Screm. He jinxed it.

Last night, I watched Craig Cook and Liam Carr in the same meeting. A few weeks ago, I watched Niels Kristian Iversen and Michael Palm Toft in the same one. In the early 1980's, I saw Bruce Penhall and Alan Mogridge in the same meeting. My point is the gulf between riders happens in all 3 leagues and always has - or at least for as long as we have had some form of rider control or points limit, which is the past 50 years. My view on the NL is a simple one. It is to develop our young British riders but the tracks in it must be a viable or sustainable business and people just will not pay to watch junior meetings. So what you have to do is combine getting the youngsters in with a few older and/or more experienced riders to ensure that the entertainment content is higher. For the most part, the NL has done precisely that and I have no argument with it.

It wasn't reasonable value. As I say, just have the wrapround out for a £1 and let those who want to buy the old programme for £1.50 do so separately. The thing is no-one would want it, would they ? I very much take your point about concessions, losses etc - you're right. But had they charged £1 for the wrapround or £1.50 for the lot I'd have been on here giving them the credit they would deserve. Part of the reason why speedway is in the difficulties that it is is because of false economies, cutting corners and not doing everything possible to ensure that fans are getting value for money. This is a minor issue when compared with some, but its an example of how promotions take the good will of the speedway fan for granted.

Yes I can. Why not just hand out the wraparound and charge people £1 and those who wish to buy something a fortnight out of date could buy it from the track shop for £1.50 ? That's the point here. You might be quite happy to read about old Edinburgh news, I'm not. I'd like to have read what had happened in the preceding week, not what happened three weeks before hand. Problem was, I only found out what I was getting after I handed my £2.50 over. I'll tell the track shop to stock up with Speedy Stars from a fortnight ago, and your local newsagent with newspapers from the same time. No doubt you'd be happy to pay full price for those too if they had a small bit added to them

Outside the stadium and its throwing it down.

Good news indeed. A couple of pints with the Big Taximan (closet bandit), one of Mr Anderson's incomparable burgers and a Berwick win

Not for the first time, AF, you have said it for me. Its a case that a fan should not get the feeling that he is being ripped off and there is far too much of that with crap tracks, lousy food, sub-standard presentation, stinking toilets - the list is endless. I'd say the difference between a wrapround and an insert is one is inside the old programme, the other is outside. To be fair, its not just Edinburgh, they all do it and indeed the wrapround last night was better than most. AF is right, though. Its about not leaving the fan with the opinion that he is being cheated. Giving them a few pieces of paper with a programme way out (or even a fortnight out) of date at full price is a rip off. Why not say that the programme is an old one with an insert before people buy it? Then again, we both know why. I have been told that programmes cost twice as much to buy as to print and your costing above is pretty consistent with that. Why not just charge the cost price for the programme and insert - say £1.50 ? Then there's no loss to the promotion and the fan would realise that he was getting a discount because it was out of date.

And how many stick to that pay rate ? I'll certainly accept your word on this, but I have been told several times that Buxton have paid over it in the past. What a rider expects and what he gets are two entirely different things. The rich clubs might need the poor clubs (although the same thing applies vice versa) but I see no reason why the bar should be set at the lowest possible level just to suit those who are not as successful off track. This is a matter of compromise, and in my experience it is the poorer ones who are far less willing to accept that.

I use this weather site : http://www.xcweather.co.uk/forecast/Berwick When those drongos at the Met Office were predicting heavy rain at Armadale last night they said it would stay dry, and it did. XC says rain to stop around 4pm, so I think that fingers crossed we might be on for some racing

I think that's pretty much spot on The only thing I would say is that even with 5 riders and a 6pt tactical ride against Comets still should have won with the lead they had built up. I suspect every Workington supporter who came out of STMP was disappointed, even if they might have settled for a point before hand. I wasn't. For me, it was a cracker of a meeting. With the forecast as it is I am not sure you need the rain dance

Little harsh (the comment about the Edinburgh match is pretty much spot on). They have won a at least a couple of away matches and are within a good shout of the top six. I'd say that what looked like a good team on paper hasn't come up to expectations. About the opposite of Edinburgh, in fact.

I think that's said with the benefit of hindsight. I can't find the prediction thread but if memory serves me correctly there weren't many who left them out of the top 6.

................and that's exactly what you would do if you had the finances that Cradley have. In fact, its what (almost) every other club in the EL, PL & NL would do (and indeed do do). All Cradley have done is build the best possible team they can with the aim of being successful on track and in doing so have used the considerable financial muscle their success off track has created. What on earth is wrong with that ? Answer is, it doesn't. But every season you get teams who are better than others for a number of reasons, not just the potential of the line ups at the start. They is often a huge disparity by June despite the level playing field in March and I witnessed that last night at Edinburgh. The 30 points isn't Cradley's fault, either. Some of their results have been reasonably close; none of Scunthorpe's have. As to sticking to the pay rates, I suspect there's only one team in the NL that does that. Ok, lets dump the likes of those you have named along with Atkin, Armstrong, Halsey, Lambert, Jacobs, Cockle and Nielsen, replace them with 3pt novices and watch the stand alone clubs go bust one by one and double up teams pull out because their losses are too great. When we people understand that NL speedway is a business, a business that must be viable (or at least sustainable) and that to ensure that that is the case the product must be attractive enough to pull in paying spectators. People simply will not pay to watch junior meetings (ask yourself why all Scunthorpe's away meetings are suddenly becoming double headers) so its a matter of compromise: get the youngsters in, but get some more experienced and capable ones in too. In my view, most of the NL clubs have done precisely that.

The match I saw there was pretty dreadful (before GB says it, the company was not). Where tracks are concerned, three of the best meetings I have seen have been at Glasgow, Belle Vue & Redcar. In all three cases the racing was good but what greatly enhanced them as a spectacle was that the scores were close. That's not saying much. Leicester's deserved reputation is an awful one. Chasing back wheels is as good as a pass if you know there is at least a chance of passing. If there isn't, its not much better than them being strung out.

Glad you saw that Mr B because I thought my eyes were deceiving me - he almost ran out in front of them, and I saw Deek have a word afterwards. Whoever he is, he shouldn't be on the centre green ever again. Workington won't be the only side to get stuffed at Armadale but they were poor. Maybe the collapse at Redcar had something to do with it but the high expectations for the side at the start of the year have fallen somewhat flat. One last point : I was annoyed at paying full price for a programme that was two weeks old, had an insert and wasn't even a Workington one. That's just a rip off and promotions who complain about fans switching to race sheets from the internet should look at their own practices before mouthing off.

Beware of met office forecasts. At 3pm this afternoon they said it would be 'heavy rain' at armadale at this time. Just taken my coat off because I am too hot.

After five heats or so this looked like it was going to be a nightmare meeting - a gate and go hammering with no interest bar the amount of dust. It turned into a cracker, the sort of match that has everyone coming back for more. It had the lot - some cracking racing, a knife edge finish, an amazing come back and even the likes of a starting gate breakdown and some (almost) harmless handbags on the terraces. Credit to redcar for never giving up and workington for their part in a thoroughly entertaining spectacle.

They don't. But an incentive might persuade them to Oldace is right. Why shouldn't ideas to get speedway fans who might be otherwise lost to the sport be considered ?