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At the start of the season I read something from the BSPL that went along the lines that their plan will mean all teams "will now be able to put out as high a level of speedway as is currently possible"... Meaning that although the "best riders" aren't here a "decent level of rider is"... Surely your crowd levels should simply dictate the level of rider you can use not "a wish list"... For me, get 1000 plus every week and you should be top tier. (Can't believe such low numbers appear 'good' but never mind)... Less than 1000 and given the large % fluctuation potential with such low numbers from week to week (eg Newcastle, Brum, the issue Eastbourne had GP weekend), then you should be looking at NDL I would suggest... Losing 200 out of an expected 800 is actually massive as that is a 25% impact which all businesses would suffer badly from, therefore if fans make it so abundantly clear that they have so little emotional loyalty to your brand and product, then you should be very, very, cautious in your planning.... The NDL though appeared to be the one league that worked, and seemed to work well, and a 500 crowd would seem to be "more than enough", to remain solvent. . I went to Poole v Leicester last week in the 2nd tier and watched 11 out of 14 riders who will appear in the top tier this week... That frankly is ludicrous and can only be down to 2nd tier promoters wanting to have their teams with these riders, however they are in a league with clubs that simply don't have the finances to support that level of rider... Ironically, Poole got some criticism for dropping down but fair play to them from a business perspective.. They are getting decent crowds, (as they always did), are not paying out 'stupid money' to world class talent, and have been able to drop their prices accordingly which can only encourage more visitors. (It got me there)... (The ridiculous fact that all clubs can pick and choose at whim where they compete is a point for another day).. However, bringing a 'Poole' into tier two, or having a 'Glasgow', or a 'Leicester' simply means that league has too far a disparate crowd level from top to bottom, hence those at the lower end of the crowd chain will, if they want to compete, have do so well above their means... Of course, (going back to the NDL), given the NDL was "doing well" it was broken up. And you have to ask yourself why...? Maybe the unpalatable truth is that this could really be the 'de facto' affordable level of Speedway in the UK for the large majority of clubs and was too much to face for some..? BV, KL, Peterborough, Ipswich, Wolves, Sheffield, (on a Thursday), Poole, (on a Wednesday), Glasgow (whatever day they choose), and Leicester (on a Saturday) should be top tier. (And add Swindon should they ever make a return).. Nine/Ten 'Elite' teams being in the flagship top league with a high team strength level to provide full time professionals with work and have no "makeweights" in any of these teams just to get under an "average"... With all the other clubs being in some amalgam of either "Championship Lite" or (a pre covid) 'NDL Plus' level of team strength, made up of semi pro riders.... When you have 7 full time professional riders to pay for 60 races worth of points money, from your home crowd of 600 or so, it simply won't work will it? And all you can do then is raise your prices to fund it... Price increases which then drop your crowd to 550, then 500, then 450 etc etc etc... Surely someone in Speedway will say "enough is enough" and stop this continual race to the bottom?

no it should be left here to shame the powers that be

Ian....Poland this year have twice cancelled matches on the Wednesday before the Sunday due to a weather forecast........I think you are being unfair to promoters..especially Eastbourne......If the forecast was scattered showers etc then they would try and get the meeting on no doubts....However the forecast all week has been bad for Thursday,Friday and Saturday....Thunder Storms...prolonged rain...high winds......Think how many people work at a Speedway Track on race night....How many people have to be told of a rain off.....I sometimes think you would be better off talking to a promoter and finding out just how difficult it is......Bit like track shops...Not quite as easy as you think

S4S look at it this way for Brough £1400 + VAT (don't forget the VAT) (cough cough) to rent the Stadium; Medical Cover £600; Referee £150/£200; Trackman £250; Rider and Club Insurance a tyre and other sundry items and BSPL fees payable and that's just the start of it. But using those basic figures you have spent your £2500 before you have turned a wheel and paid any points money out; furthermore you are being ambitious with 300 fans as there was around 150 who stopped back to watch the NDL meetings after the main event at Newcastle; but if we give you the benefit of the doubt and say that they do get 300 in to watch at a tenner a head you are flying by the seat of your pants again at £3000 before you even start. So the promoter says if you want Speedway you are going to have to ether come and watch in larger numbers because where have all the Speedway fans gone or I am going to have to increase the entry fee. (Sound familiar?) so then as @mikebv stated earlier you up you entry to 15 quid but 50 people decide that they aren't going to pay that so its a rat race to blowing your brains out. Also I sponsored a couple of NDL lads this year and both are stating that due to machinery and travel costs they are going to quit next year unless they get something like 20 quid point because they can not afford it and then none of this adds up... Hopefully that explains the figures and why running an NDL team at Newcastle is fraught with risk... I accept your premise and don't fundamentally disagree with it however no matter what you do the numbers need to stack up... Regards THJ

About everything or something specific

Unless you are speaking for the Leicester promotion, that is a shocking post.

i may be a mile off here but reading the above... happy to hear thoughts from how this could work as a very basic model or cost plan for running speedway ? i guessing currently riders are on way more than £30/point though more like nearer £100 !! but is that the problem ? .... Income: £12(avg cost) x 500 = £6000 Costs (as above) = £2500 Riders = £3500 or / 2 = £1750 per meeting £1750 / 45 (avg points per meeting) = £38/point .... so riders can not be paid more than around £30/point to allow for other costs. (plus any sponsorship). this may sound low, but a good heat leader can still earn up to £500/meeting, something which most motor cross riders, stock car drivers (who are just a professionally turned out and take the same risks etc) could only dream of earning !! as above, sorry riders cannot expect to be professional any more solely relying on speedway for income but the riders must also be given a way to cut their own costs, with rule changes to enforce cheaper running costs, they are paying a fortune for equipment at present, that clearly no-one can actually afford ? ... level to run at must be below the current "championship" and more like the "old" national league of the 70's/80's i think there are enough supporters at the tracks who would pay £12/15 to watch such a league standard, if the league is ran well, eventually more will be interested also ? eg a Newcastle team of something like Wethers/Clegg/Wright/Roynon/Phillips/Embleton/Freeman

I think one of the reasons why the public are so cautious about travelling to meetings when its wet is because for many years, promoters have lied about the prospects of meetings going ahead, "we have had no rain here, the track is in excellent condition" but then you get their, and puddles are all around coupled with a wet track, and it has not just happened. Promoters now are stuck between a rock and a hard place, if the weather does not come, will people actually believe them when they say "everything is ok"? reap what you sow etc

See, it's not all doom and gloom... Looks like it's doing better than Pigeon Racing..... I believe they were doing really well until there became a shortage of pigeons due to them starting to compete in international races at weekends... So they started to allow sparrows and blackbirds in to guest for the missing pigeons... Not crows though as they were deemed too good (they fly direct like a crow flies you see), to replace the missing pigeons so they did have some integrity... They did though allow magpies to replace losing birds during a race, and their mileage was counted as double due to them being black and white.... I'll get me coat...

Why do you watch it then? There's been more than enough to keep me interested, what else would I watch anyway.. 'Don't cry no tears' though..

A business plan, 1.Your staff will demand far more money than is coming into your business to find expensive equipment that is totally unsuited to the UK operation but they insist on having it because they do in other market places that have both the infrastructure & income to support it. 2.your staff demand these high wages in an attempt to survive for 12 months on 6 months income. 3.While your paying these unaffordable wages your staff can also sign a contract with another employer all be it in a slightly different sector of the same industry. While this has no direct disruption to your business as this sector works on a different day there is a risk of the employee injuring themselves or burning themselves out that would effect your business massively. 4.In addition to working in a slightly different sector your employees can also guest work for your direct competition as long as you're not open on that day. This could affect your business directly though injury to said employees or their efforts for your direct competition could mean that your competition is more successful than you thus costing you loss of income. All of the above is driven by a desire too become champions of your sector however points 2 to 4 mean that rising to the top has very little reward apart from a brief mention in your local paper because these points make the industry a non event. Finally should you succeed in achieving all your targets for the year and who knows even breakeven doing it then the other jealous employers in your sector will ensure that the employment rules are changed for the following year meaning they can grab your prized assets to being them success thus directly affecting your business. All this is overseen by the auditors who are infact the owners of both your direct and indirect competition who can change rules at a drop of a hat 'in the interest of your industry' Should you succeed in getting backers for your business plan make sure you don't mention the way the biggest market in the world can also control your employees with you having any say.

That is why Redcar promoter Ben Duffill is packing in because of the closed shop attitude. He has taken us from a wooden spoon candidate to a play off candidate, increased crowds & treats the attendees like adults

A cap has been tried before, it doesn't work. All that happens is clubs with money back that rider up with "sponsorship"

Just read this weeks Speedway Star.. Can anyone tell me what page the Newcastle release is on about their much needed win over Berwick, the sad news that they need a massive crowd this Sunday or speedway might not survive or the preview of Bjarne Pedersen ,Jason Crump, Danny King, Rory Schlein and fans favourite Stevie Worrall all being on track this weekend ( weather permitting) as with it been Britain’s leading Speedway magazine the publicity would be fantastic

Given the amount of garbage you come out with on behalf of the Berwick promotion I don't think you have any room to be calling out anyone!

The bottom line for me is that the riders are paid more money than the clubs can afford going on the crowd size, the league needs to change to standard engines and riders treat it as a hobby that pays a lower rate, I've heard about top riders in the league getting paid guaranteed £1,500 plus per meeting , this has to stop and reserves getting £50 a point, no wonder the clubs are struggling. THJ might have more info on the wage structure than me?

So the rain stops Berwick getting 4 away points ah well such is life

Berwick has it's own weather forecast. The whole country had severe blizzard's once and we were going about in flip flops and shorts drinking tequilas by the pool

I think you are right, Brum and Newcastle look very costly meetings for the host clubs should either side not see out the season and i can see other teams ready to call off with far better forecasts than there is this weekend. Sadly Eastbourne are more representative of a successful UK speedway club and if they are facing financial difficulties and strong dependencies upon the number of people attending then it really is time to sit down and look at how the cloth can be cut accordingly for all clubs.

June and july are summer now in england, clubs have had 2 weeks to race with proper crowds, the scunny match was moderate crowd size too. I think they are bang on not risking this weekend, could do 3 or 4 grand and the match be expunged from records in a fortnight if things go awry elsewhere

This thread has only taken off since Michael Fish joined in the conversation .

PMSL I have a limited company that has been offered a 250k loan and I wouldn't dream of trying what you are suggesting... and just because you are a Limited Company that doesn't give you a "get out of Jail (or gaol) free card" if you knowingly perform an illegal act you pay the price... I'm starting to believe what @lewy had to say... Clueless... Regards THJ

Zmarzlik has won when a wild card, also Martiin Dugard & Michael jesper Jensen

Still less crappy than the whole British Speedway I'm glad You still remember me.

I know i can be a troll every other year i accidentally remind myself that this forum exists and post some weird random stuff on it but i'm nowhere near to idiocy of Emailali

I haven’t been to a meeting at Berwick for around 7 years for your information

Give the young man the title now.. There is his level then the level of five or six others.. Not the greatest GP by any stretch but still worth a couple of hours watch..

Just let folk enjoy it without passing judgement pal .. I feel sorry for you thinking your some sort of self righteous speedway judge ,telling people what they should or shouldn't think .

If he's Polish he might do.Heard of things happening in the past.

Zmarzlik`s quite a good rider isn`t he

Yes and when compared to the video of Basso it shows how narrow some of our tracks are compared to the tracks abroad. This must inhibit rider development as you have to be quite precise in your manoeuvre as Richie showed. Thumbs up to Hume who along with Bowtell I watched as novices at Rye House and it’s great to see them keep at it and not lose heart. If U.K.speedway is to succeed in these difficult times then we need plenty more of these lads.

Put the sawdust down, riders don the overalls On with the racing!

Iainb....At the end of the day the promoters are the people who have put the money in to run the clubs,so they have to do the best for the club...fans...riders...staff etc......As a matter of interest if Leicester were riding at Eastbourne tomorrow....1.Would you travel...and 2.If it was rained off at 7pm when you arrived in the stadium after it had been raining all the way there ,would you complain...and would you do the same thing next time you were at Eastbourne ??

Think that's why we will soon end up with Poole versus Belle Vue every week soon - let them have their season of fun. For ANYTHING to work it has to have the co operation of all promoters (can you ever imagine that happening?) ....... and probably one of the main reasons speedway is now rapidly on a downwards spiral.

As daft as you if you think Speedway Promotions pay Council full rent and don’t use the facility for 6 months.In Berwick’s case ( Council Owned)your not telling me that the Football pay 12 months full rent for 6 months use and Ditto the Speedway.I’m sure there is deal struck that suits them both.

Don't forget the Belle Vue Hose pipe!

Spoke to Dougie at the stadium who said they dont use covers anymore because no one is prepared to help pull them on and off!

Christ I do admire your patience

That is not good news as the "conspiracy theorist" (Skidder1) will be on here soon saying it is because of the GP in Lublin.

Although we normally sing off the same hymn sheet Mike there is a lot of what you have put above I don't agree with. First off there is nothing "Top Tier" about British Speedway these days and we need to drop the terms Elite and Premier as this is marketing under false pretences there is nothing Elite about the product. Poland and Brexit have seen to that and if the Poles decide to make all their riders ride in just one league that will be a few more less for selection... The NDL was a joke as it was treat like a top league by promoters with riders on £800 guarantees and deciding not to ride in other leagues but choose the easy option of sitting in the NDL... Promoters are their own worst enemies as they try and operate like football clubs but for every Man City who can afford a Jack Grealish at 100 million quid and on a couple of hundred grand a week salary there are thousands of other clubs that can only dream of such ambition. Football at the top levels oare supported by billions of pounds of high paying revenue sources Speedway doesn't have two pennies to rub together. Promoters are the issue here there is no one else to blame as it those guys who cant get their act together and they don't like hearing that either. There is a race for all the top riders to be seen to smash all other teams and win everything and its only money that does that; which is back to the football scenario however football has the world to choose from and the Premiership here is where every one wants to play however in Speedway the roles are reversed as its Poland who have all the cash and it is Poland where all the riders aspire to be. That in now and wont change any time soon. There aren't Nine or Ten 'Elite' teams in the country to run a flagship top league as the riders we have available are only second strings in Poland at best and it is going to be harder to be a Professional in this country because the wages aren't sustainable to provide full time professionals with work. Gone are the days when guys like the Owen Brothers took all before them in the second tier and when the went up a league struggled at 6 and 7 initially in a team resplendent in international riders. The Sport moved on unfortunately the UK did not follow suit. I was told off a BSPL committee member that if the riders didn't ride in two leagues in this country they would qit because they could not make it pay!!! well let them quit and get a job because Speedway is no longer a full time Professional Sport in the UK Poland and Brexit have seen to that and the way the sport in governed with the tail invariable wagging the dog... I agree that something needs done and there does need to be more teams in League 1 than there are in League 2 and this ridiculous curry star rating system and other manufactured ways of trying to manipulate the riders for team building needs to stop... there needs to be a fundamental sea change in the sport both in attitude and in delivery of the product... Surely following this year we will see something radical happening. Finally you don't have 14 full time professional riders to pay from a crowd of 600, you have 7 home riders to pay for and then hope you make enough from your 600 punters to cover your own 7 riders for the corresponding away meeting. If there was ever a time for 6 man teams and electric bikes its now and on your last point someone in Speedway has said "enough is enough" and that is "The Fans" at many clubs. I wanted to expand this further but being at graft and busy I am struggling for time and there is another point I want to pick up on Regards THJ

I do hope the weather forecast isn’t right as IainB will have an eppy fit if it’s rained off.

I hope we get something out of Brummies before the weekend as silence can become deafening and worrying. Fingers crossed and for Newcastle too.

Hi Steve I will be there on Sunday along with a certain Mr Stephen Shovlar. I have always enjoyed my trips to Tyneside and to Brough Park and I would hate to see the Diamonds close down. Let's hope the weather gods play ball on Sunday.

Maybe you should have just said 'old fruit'?

Call it off!

Best available guest is Zane Keleher, oh how I'd laugh

We started the 5-1 Draw on behalf of the promotion in August 2019. Numbers are £10 per month we now have 159 numbers taken. It was called the 5-1 draw as 1st prize was £500 2nd prize £100. However with extra numbers being taken we were able to put in a 3rd prize of £50. So far the club have received just over £18k which goes into the S.T.A.R.S. fund to help maintain the costs of running speedway at Berwick and also any improvement's.

Was good to see a 1 min time allowance introduced for restarts in the GP's this season... something I've been saying that British Speedway should have introduced years ago... yet still haven't!