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No evidence on any number. It could have killed 2 million without a lockdown. We just don't know. We have to rely on the medical experts on how we deal with a virus for which we don't have a vaccine. None of us are experts. What I do understand is that it's R (the re-infection rate) which is the critical number. But we have to listen to medical and scientific advice. You're not an expert. Neither am I.

But we do have true evidence now that there isn't a single country that has either 'not locked down' or have a much 'laxer' lockdown that has seen any significant surge in either cases or deaths. In reality, it's actually been the opposite. The justification for the lockdown was we'd see 20 x the cases, 20 x the deaths. Events around the world are showing that simply isn't the case... so we're simply destroying the economy and creating absolutely massive problems down the line (which many simply don't grasp) for what amounts to be very little or no gain at all. Based upon the initial models there was a very strong argument the lockdown was the way to go.... but as more and more data emerges they need to stop modelling on theories and actually look at reality. The problem you will have now is stubborness. The 'experts' will not want to admit they were wrong.. governments will have a hard time coming out saying, well actually, sorry folks, we cocked up here, seems the lockdown doesn't actually help. In reality, in a sensible world they shouldn't be criticised if they did that.. they did what they thought was best and the models showed and erred on the side of caution. Sadly though people turn fast and they'd get a very negative response. PLUS you'd have a section of society who would blame every death thereafter on there not being a lockdown and forget all about those who were dying when there was one. The other factor is... for a lockdown to have any chance to work, it needs to be total.. as it was in Wuhan. However, you simply can't lock down an entire country. Whilst people are still going to work, going to supermarkets etc... and you have idiots breaking the guidelines (not the ones in parks, more the ones having house parties) it simply isn't going to happen. This 'myth' that the lockdown is working because numbers are beginning to stabilise is just that. A myth. That's how viruses work.. indeed it happens every single year without fail. In October you start to see an increase in flu/pneumonia related deaths.. the figure rises and rises quite sharply till in December you hit around 3000 a week dying. That continues for a number of weeks at that level (doesn't rise further like these stupid models keep portraying) before starting to drop down as winter comes to an end. This virus is following the exact same pattern.

There is no true evidence that it would have killed any number. That is the problem. We are dealing with a disease that is not properly understood and every body is playing catch up based on models, assumption, experience and inspired guesses. The top line figures ( one of which estimated half a million deaths ) assumed no action taken at all but of course action is taken but it is a blunt instrument and nobody quite knew in advance how effective it would be. We can’t protect the elderly. They, like everyone else have to exercise good sense and protect themselves. Going on cruises, and taking their camper vans down to Newquay or going to off the gee-gees at Cheltenham, all of which many have done is not really good sense. Unfortunately the government can’t rely on common sense among the population as a whole. They have to work to and advise to the lowest common denominator, and the more stupid the behaviour of the minority the lower the lowest common denominator has to be, even though it is a pain to the rest.

Spot on.. Only had 'the flu' once, around 30 years ago and I remained in bed for a week with two visits from the doctor as there was no chance of me going out to see him.. My then girlfriend told me when I was back on my feet that the she knew I wasnt well when she asked me what I was doing and I told her that i was "washing the pots". And the sink was empty. She decided I wasnt quite fit to drive to work so put me to bed and given the amount of sweating and shaking also decided to phone the emergency doctor. I lost over a stone in a weeks bed rest through sweating.. Since then, as a supermarket manager, whenever anyone calls in sick with "I have this flu that's going around so wont be in today, but I will be in tomorrow" I do laugh....

Watched the documentary it just confirms what I already thought great club,great promotion, great facilities and great fans and if you was a rider why wouldn't you want to ride for them,that's from all the way down here in Plymouth

I have had flu twice in my life I spent at least a week in bed both times and it was about 2wks after that before I was a 100% fit again ,on both occasions I was under 30 yrs old .

Speaking from a London point of view - , If we're at a shopping centre, pub, restaurant or any public event by mid June i'll be astonished. Had the locals not continually ignored guidance we might have had a chance, but no. Not a pups chance of football resuming here before maybe July or August, let alone something like speedway outside of town. Annoying, but reality i think.

We have 'flu vaccines to try to aid with that - we don't have a Covid-19 vaccine. Surely you understand that key and absolutely massive difference? It's why it's not necessary to lock down every time we have a 'flu outbreak, but it is during the current outbreak of Covid-19. It's very different. Of course, the 'flu is mutating every single year and therefore sadly, there are still deaths, but many are prevented. That's not to say every death is not tragic - it is. But Covid-19 and 'flu are not the same thing, due to the current lack of vaccine for one of them.

Very much enjoyed the prog tonight , good to see both sldes of the eastbourne night, still cant workout how craig got off lightly, interesting to hear the phone is red hot with riders wanting to go their cant think why lol. Reading this weeks "ss" len silver says he doesnt build a team to win medals but to make money glasgow come across on the other side of the fence kent makes a profit each year where as others dont!.all in all a great advert for speedway but more important glasgow speedway long may it go on.

...also, generally, on the whole, women are hairier than men....... but only on the hole

Same here, just had it the once. I'm never ill, rarely get a cold but went down with flu around ten years ago and it knocked me for six. A very uncomfortable week or so in bed, the one thing I do remember, (and am never allowed to forget) was when it was at it's peak, after finally getting in a vaguely comfortable position in bed, I needed a wee. The en-suite loo was about a dozen steps away, but it may as well of been in Ulan Batar, the way I felt. I knew I had to move, but didn't want to or felt I could. You become a little delirious with flu and your thought processes go out the window and I seriously considered just peeing in the bed. I didn't, I hasten to add, I compromised and managed half the steps and peed on the bathroom floor....

Crikey I haven’t had that since I was a kid! Used to love a bit of chocolate custard

Gentlemen please, i'm about to have my dinner

I spoke to a friends wife yesterday who is a Death Registrar at a hospital. I asked her the question, if a person was knocked down by a lorry and killed and the autopsy showed they were carrying the virus would he be included as a Covid death. The answer was yes.

Indeed... the reality is, the vast majority of deaths appear to be from those who were 'self isolating'.

Not as arbitrary as keeping the whole population isolated and the economy stalled without a compelling reason.

As everyone else has said, very difficult to choose between them and I'm also sure I would come up with a different answer tomorrow, but for now, I'll go with: 1. Nigel Boocock (perhaps remembering him from an older era than some here), 2. Malcolm Simmons, 3. Eric Boocock, 4. John Louis, 5. Ray Wilson, 6. Martin Ashby, 7. Terry Betts.

Difficult one Sid. Mine would be - Ray Wilson, Terry Betts, Malcolm Simmons, John Louis, Martin Ashby, Eric Boocock & Nigel Boocock...but then again!

Please put the Q&A onto the website. I enjoyed the video of the NICE 2v Challenge, just wish I had got to see it live.

Hi, I did a live Q and A on Thursday before our showing of the NICE 2v Challenge (still available to watch on our website) - if you want to see the Q and A session its available on our FB page - if people dont use FB and would like to see it I will put it on to our Website. Many thanks, and please keep safe Barry

Neither is Ferguson going by his dubious record of failed 'modelling'. We are the experiment imo, not Sweden. I don't think people are grasping the catastrophic financial and social implications of this lockdown...

Once a tool always a tool. And i am being kind.

Might be a nice bloke, might have methanol in his veins, Scunny is a decent track although poorly supported numbers wise . As the head man of our Sport though and on his record as Vice Chairman he was and still is way out of his depth. No marketing ideas, no vision, no charisma, look at the Scunthorpe programme (a joke) website (an embarassment) social media ( non existant ) and then compare with Barry Bishop, Lee Kilby, Peter Faceena and a few other Promoters and the likes of Rob Painter GB man Sport is cooked with "dumb down Godfrey" in charge. Time for an Independent professional approach.

I believe the reason so many people seem to trivialise 'flu is because 'A touch of the flu' is what many will tell their boss was the reason they weren't at work yesterday. Or a football manager saying this player is missing today due to a dose of flu but they're back playing a few days later. Of course in both cases they've had a cold but feel the need to pep it up a bit. A cold can be unpleasant but is nowhere near as horrible or debilitating as a real dose of flu. Only this afternoon on the increasingly hysteria driven 5 Live a virologist when comparing influenza and Covid 19 dismissed flu as a virus that makes you feel bad for a few days but you're well after five days - clearly someone who's never had 'flu. Many simply won't believe that 'the trivial' little illness that they use to pull a sickie really can be a killer. It's just a spot of flu, right?

Enjoyed that, seems like a professionally run club and good luck to them. I might pay a visit whenever the sport starts again. A long way from Kentish Town though!

I see that all the time. I give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they were doing drugs! It's sad but unfortunately public toilets are used for that as much as their intended purpose these days.

Enjoy!

I was just discussing some of this with friends in our WhatsApp group. Is it something that would help put things into more perspective, and show us how many ‘extra’ deaths there are each day due to the virus? Using the 500,000 total, that’s an average number of deaths per day of 1,370. They are announcing the number of Covid-19 related deaths at e.g. 900 each day – but what is that in relation to the overall total of that particular day? Was the number of deaths that day 1,370 + 900 = 2,270? Probably not, but neither is it likely that the number of people passing away from a condition not Covid-19 related will have fallen considerably too much lower than 1,370. (is there a figure to hand of by how many the average had fallen before 5 April this year v. the last 5 years?) So it is most likely somewhere between the two, but where between? However, given that we are being told many of those passing away had underlying conditions, would it be fair to assume that some of those 900 people who sadly died that day from or associated with Covid-19 would have died anyway from another condition. Not necessarily on that particular day, but not too far into the future. Maybe the talk of the ‘underlying conditions’ is giving some folks a false sense of security – those flouting the social distancing advice for instance. Would it, then, help hammer home the point of how this affecting us all also releasing the overall total of deaths, and how many higher this is than the average number of deaths ‘expected’ each day based on the 1,370 figure?

People are commenting on the measures being taken by shops and businesses. Our stores are limiting numbers, marking floors and designating areas etc, but unless they are RIGIDLY enforced, they will have little or no effect. Of course, stores can't constantly police everyone, and therein lies the problem; too many people are morons who can't/won't police themselves. The vast majority of people I am seeing ARE doing a good job of self-policing, but it only takes one or two idiots ignoring advice to cause problems. The single thing that worries me is that so many people don't care about personal hygiene. I clean at a local bar, and I am horrified by the amount of people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet. If they won't do it (as a matter of course) after dropping the kids off at the pool, I can't see them following advice now.

Thank you kindly Sid. Great Thread.

My pick would be to swap Ray Wilson for Malcolm Simmons Steve. Otherwise I agree with the rest.

Just arrived with this months"backtrack" off to a quiet beach nearby where no one goes to sit on a bench and read in peace .

The trouble is, while I agree, if everyone was safe distancing, where's the harm? But the police may take a different view and the authorities don't want us to create our own 'workarounds' or us 'pushing the envelope'. They have presented their message in a black and white way and they want us to adopt it in a black and white way, not bending the rules. Don't get me wrong, I'm as frustrated as everyone else with these draconian measures.

Very sorry to learn of the passing of Eric Linden. Eric stuck with speedway throughout the bad times of the mid-1950's when he had other irons in the fire and could easily have ditched it and concentrated on these. He had common sense views on speedway and it's problems of the times, and was blunt in his opinions, but he never slated the sport or it's promotors. May he rest in the peace of the Lord.

A figure of speech to illustrate stupid behaviour one example of which is the number attending the Cheltenham Gold Cup a few weeks ago in confined spaces, and reports of some of things going on in London which seems to now be translating into higher statistics with London being ahead of the rest of the country. As I seem to keep repeating incessantly many of these measures are only necessary because a relatively small percentage don’t exhibit basic common sense in dealing with a dangerous disease.

I’ll pass gaz as bored as I may be without my speedway fix.

I didn’t mention people in public parks. I don’t know what numbers were involved or how sensibly or stupidly they were behaving, Neither do you. Of the hundreds ,possibly thousands involved it is almost inevitable that some will be carriers. Your comparison with supermarkets is interesting. One is essential , one isn’t. One involved a relatively short period of potential exposure, the other much longer. I don’t know about your area but round here the supermarkets and our local farm shopare only letting a few in at a time on a one in one out basis,and the floors have been divided into squares so every body keeps to their own space. Totally different the thousands in a park. As with all health and safety the ones in the greatest danger are the ones who least recognise the danger. You can’t rely on everyone acting sensibly that’s why we need regulations.

I will go with 1 Ray Wilson, 2 Terry Betts, 3 Malcolm Simmons, 4 Nigel Boocock, 5 John Louis, 6 Martin Ashby, 7 Eric Boocock. No prejudice there as Eric was one of my favourite riders of the era. A very hard task as they were all good (imagine having those 7 available for England nowadays to back up Woffy!). Ask me the same question tomorrow and I would probably come up with a completely different order!!! nice topic. Thanks Sidney for setting it up.

All media should be handed over to the people that do Glasgow's... they're on a different level

Correct, shows you how to spend loads of money and no win anything.

Very sad news about Peter R.I.P. and condolences to his family. Peter was a Diamonds fan through and through. Not only did he provide financial backing, but he and his wife did so much behind the scenes when speedway was making a comeback at Newcastle in the late 90s as well as providing heavy equipment for track work when it was needed One of life's genuine characters who will be sorely missed!

If refunds are not given it would be one of the biggest mistakes the sport has made. Fans would be turned off the sport at a time when they are needed most.

You're underplaying it. That's just flu... it doesn't include pneumonia deaths which are another 100,000 or so deaths. At least 1/3 of which come from flu.. the rest from other viruses contracted from social contact. So basically 100,000+ deaths.. no lockdown necessary. They're expendable.

Very sad news. He was a truly great journalist and brought speedway alive through his various columns in the Star.

If there's one sport that's used to working in the dark and not knowing, it's speedway.

Watched Mildenhall v Peterborough few days ago Mick Hines got so much stick that day from the fen tigers fans but it didnt help him racing in his tigers colours with a panther on his chest. Fish and Chips always made the trips to west row more enjoyable.

I'm trying to do that also ! One of the dominant voices on that thread lives out in the sticks in Portugal with far lower deaths, so can presumably be more calm and spend time trawling thru websites of stats and the like, knowing that he is in a very cushy position and won't get the virus knocking on his door any time soon. Sadly, that's not something that many people in the UK can be so sure about. Nearly 500 deaths across 4 hospitals within 10 mins drive of me is certainly enough to make a lot of people in my part of the capital jittery. Don't get me wrong, they're entitled to opinions etc, but it's easy to be calm and contrarian from a place of relative safety.

I've "self-isolated" myself from the other thread on corona virus...just goes round and round in circles and dominated by a certain few.

Nicely put, logical argument. Couldn't even be bothered to follow the comments past the first few pages. It's a forum where people give their opinions, you don't have to agree, if you had half a brain you could make a sensible argument. However you find it easier to just rock up, read a few pages and abuse people. Only embarrassing thing about this is being called names by a complete w&nker like yourself

No rent not sure about that? Season tickets will need refunding yet riders advances will still have been paid out. Vans booked, race suits made etc. There are sizable pre season costs that if not recoupable could sink a club......oh and bspa fees which im sure will be returned immediately.