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The benefit of hindsight? Really? Do you really need hindsight to see that spending vast amounts more than you are bringing in, and racing on nights dictated to by your employees, rather than for the benefit of your customers, is anything other than a ludicrous business plan?.. Do you really need hindsight to see that trying to run a bona fide Sporting Championship, whilst sharing competitors with your rivals on an adhoc basis, is laughable and brings zero credibility to the very competition you are spending ridiculous sums trying to win? Do you really need hindsight to see that you have, annually, lost thousands of fans due to your operating model and business plan and replaced them with very, very few new fans? I would suggest anyone who didn't spot the current shambles being the obvious conclusion of their actions, must have very, very poor vision indeed, and not having hindsight is the least of their worries...

He has history when we first brought him over he was like a spoilt brat , we were slated by some on here for showing him the door , but wouldn't touch him with a berge pole.

All down to me, so they’ll be totally unbiased

While this thread maybe full of aggression, the forum as a whole is packed with ideas from long standing, thinking and committed fans about how to improve the sport. Some are ridiculous, some are unworkable and some require the injection of unfeasibly huge amounts of cash. Some, however, might just be worth a try. Problem is, with the exception of Barry Bishop, Neil Watson, Jayne Moss & Laurence Rogers not one single promoter or team manager engages with fans on this forum. Indeed, most of them treat it with utter contempt and even loathing. I should point out that Barry attracts 4 likes for every post he makes, a truly remarkable reflection of just how much his contribution is valued. Even if paying customers make constructive comment or suggestion, then, they aren't even read. Its also indicative of just how those who run the sport view the fan who pays every week. The number of accounts of the quite dreadful way paying customers are treated is damning - I know, I have had some of that. I'd say that much of the vilification is deserved. For me, the worst is the cheating, one-upmanship and culture of favours and corruption at the heart of the sport that leaves fans totally disillusioned. Its a bit of a long shot to say that without the decision to prevent Workington riding on Fridays last season the Comets might have survived - a decision motivated by the most appalling self interest - but it certainly didn't do them any favours. I could probably name half a dozen occasions when rulings have been made that were completely contrary to the rules of the sport at the behest of one promoter or another. The BSPA can legitimately blame the weather, landlords, riders, the press and heaven knows who else for the problems that the sport faces. But they can't get away from that one and I don't think the damage it has done can be overestimated.

The difference between the promoters and the fans is that they have all the information available at their fingertips to come up with a solution, whereas the fans have nothing. Share profit and loss, attendances, wages costs and so on with the fans and we can come up with a detailed, costed model for British speedway. Until then, fans are merely shooting in the dark.

He chooses to walk up the grass bank, then complains about it. I’m sick of climbing the fence to get in at Monmore Green, especially with the barb wire and don’t get me started on using a ladder at Swindon, whilst carrying a baby.

It's not the racing.. it's all about perception. Formula One is awful racing.. but look at the popularity and the glamour.

It'll upset a few on here but we actually need less teams, too many can't afford to race at any sort of reasonable level and the sport cannot move forward whilst it panders to these clubs, you are only as strong as your weakest link.

Well, as I suggested, IMMEDIATELY reducing team numbers from seven to six would be a good place to start to address the chronic rider shortage, so there's one short-term way of easing a major problem. No riders worthy of a team place would be out of work - not for long anyway.

Until the sport is one business there will never be a common business plan, each club has differing levels of investment/expense/needs so the model for say Belle Vue will not fit Stoke and vice versa. A former Promoter who was losing a 6 figure some each season told me he wouldn't miss it yet by the same token a club that lost £40k over 3 seasons at the same time couldn't continue and chose to race in the NL. Such a huge disparity in financial resource will never bring the agendas together and there is always somebody who will run off to their legal counsel and threaten the members with "this is a cartel of businesses making rules and agreements to threaten my trade" which if proven has unlimited fines in law. (Coventry and Peterborough anyone). The point I am making is that it is clear from all the comments on all the threads that all the members of this forum and all the members of the BSPA are in the same situation, they haven't a solution not withstanding the BSPA are beaten at every turn. I agree wholeheartedly with the nature of many of the criticisms and i don't agree with Rob's bull headed approach to most matters but his answers to the questions that were published clearly demonstrates an understanding of the mess even if he is trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted. What he has done in response to many of the critics is acknowledge the situation in stark contrast to the "everything in the garden is rosy" statements from the past that the BSPA has been vilified for by many or the same who are criticising now, but I respect your comments and response, thank you.

it's a tricky one ...my memories of years gone by at Swindon was that the track was very deep to start with . These days it's risk free and very slick from the start . There can be no doubt it's been a poor track for quite a while now and not only that quite dangerous with holes etc ..One of the reasons Nick Morris left was because of it . A school of thought might that the lack of money in speedway is also effecting how the tracks are being set up .

And as RG alluded to in the SS, 'guest riding' is a nice earner for the riders which helps fund their riding, hence they are here to stay.. Their team might only have 30 or so meetings but riders can ride many, many more times if they have the 'right average' .... (and maintain it)...

No this ones a genuine loon.

1. Swindon Doyle, Batchelor, Musielak 2. Wolverhampton Masters, Schlein, Thorssell 3. Peterborough Andersen, Cook, Tungate 4. Belle Vue Fricke, Bjerre, Bewley 5. Poole Holder, Kurtz, Grajczonek 6. Ipswich Harris, Lawson, King 7. Kings Lynn (Rumoured) Lambert, Proctor, Riss

You’re right Mike - and your first paragraph hits the nail on the head - it was aimed at some of the Kings Lynn ‘fans’. The purpose of my proposed bet was to see if any of these people who are adamant that Kings Lynn will collect the wooden spoon (or to be battling with Ipswich to avoid this) would be brave enough to ‘put their money where their mouth is’ and, unsurprisingly in my view, nobody has taken up the opportunity. The bet was simple - Kings Lynn succeed and these people would £50 to the BEN fund - a price worth paying. If they don’t succeed, I would pay £50 to the BEN fund and all these negative people ‘win’ as they could take great pleasure in saying ‘I told you so’ along with Speedway benefitting from the great work the BEN fund do. Ultimately, it was the long winded way to get to the point that, no matter what is offered, you will never please everybody. I said a few months ago, people would moan if we signed Woffinden, Zmarzlik & Dudek, and I stick by that. Drop the negative attitude, get behind the sport and the team, and lets actually look forward to the 2019 season, I for one can’t wait - if the predictions are right for the remaining team spots, it will be a team of triers and a team I think the fans can connect with. Putting my tin hat firmly on now . . .

Might do though when one man effectively controls 3 of the 7 clubs

That's very true.. But sadly the very fact that they could help their rival's cause is a huge detriment to the Sports desire to ever being taken seriously as a "proper sport' by the wider mainstream media.. Still, as RG says, they are needed...

You couldn't spell fence, let alone build one or plan one.

Chunky makes a good point. The other major aspect of a bigger league is it simply creates more 'stars'. The bigger the league, the more heat leaders there are and the less often you see the top riders in the league beaten.. which adds to their 'mystique' and makes you want to see them when they visit.

Guests don't always help their rival's cause!!

You're not upsetting me, but I just don't agree. One of the reasons that British speedway has gone stale - or at least, the paying public feels it has gone stale - is a lack of variety. Being in a league with just eight or ten teams - and the same handful of riders - leads to tedium when you are watching them five or six times a year. Back when we had eighteen or nineteen teams, you only got to see most teams just the once - maybe twice if you met them in the cup; that gave us something to look forward to, even if you hated Mauger, Olsen or whoever! Sure, at Plough Lane, we saw Hackney three or four times, but as our arch-enemies, that was okay. We had variety of formats, with best pairs, four team tournaments, individual events, and even three-team tournaments. As far as individual events, most tracks would have at least two, and you tended to get pretty different line-ups for each. There was also a variety of track sizes, shapes, and surfaces (and banking). They didn't always provide the closest meetings (like Wimbledon against Halifax, or Crayford against Exeter), but you got to see some of the lesser lights shining because they were more of a small-track or large-track rider. That's why we at Wimbledon always looked forward to seeing new Americans; even if they weren't THAT good, they usually were when they visited South London! Steve

Why would anyone who supports another club in the Premiership bet against you? I as a BV fan could agree to your £50 wager then watch (completely broken), as 'my' riders, several times during the season help your team qualify for the Play Offs (at their own teams' expense), by guesting for you...

New Updates Service Bandits home meetings in 2019 now have a dedicated Twitter updates service. Heat results posted seconds after the chequered flag www.twitter.com/LiveBandits

It seems we have a brilliant product that nobody wants to pay to watch. The mystery deepens

Colin Is it true you have planning permission for speedway around Cornhill roundabout, and will it be free entry as you cannot build a fence.

wot a load of rubbish you speak

Basically agree with the sentiment but good luck at maintaining interest and attracting new regular or returning fans with that fixture list. Speedway is a mess and the EoES may also say do one in the summer but naff all from July 15 until September 5 (currently the last programmed 2019 fixture) is beyond a joke.

Agreed, of course the BSPA/Promoters, past and present, are ultimately responsible and to blame for the mess...and are paying a heavy price for their compliancy...BUT I feel your view, albeit technically correct, is rather protecting the guilty. Chairman Chapman and VC Godfrey are culpable as they are the two who should be driving the sport forward...BUT sadly they are driving speedway off a cliff. The BSPA administration of speedway is top down management and Chapman, in particular, is responsible for more than his fair share of catastrophic (engines to name but one) blunders. He is clearly a megalomaniac with the attention span and acumen of a goldfish along with Godfrey, his equally 'not so bright' sidekick. It is a fact that badly managed businesses eventually go bankrupted and the clueless twosome have disastrously presided over the speedways biggest decline for years and that has now seen the sport to be financially unsustainable with Clubs disastrously going bust each year, Clubs consistently loosing 6 figures sums per season, more Clubs (than is made public) are up for sale with zero chance of attracting a buyer...even Poole, arguably the most successful club in recent history, can not find a buyer. Seeing the crumbling state of speedway it is understandable that many promoters want to jump ship...as sadly the time to 'sort this mess out' lifeboat has sailed long-ago.

All i really wanted waytogo28 was the three thing's i mentioned, and getting a structure in place that give us a continual string of fixtures with at least 20 home fixtures.For me one of the problems speedway has is the fixture list is sparse and when fans get used to not going and do other activities it is very hard for the sport to entice some fans back.

You will probably find that the leaseholders Carter & Bailey are a 'different' company to the speedway promoters BMR. If that's the case, then they might not be liable for the latter's debt. Of course, i could be wrong.

Believe it or not the Bournemouth Echo have also covered the MPT signing in today's edition!!! Although not in the online version as yet!

I agree but why is speedway so different to other industries ( ie) not listening to the paying customer.? Alot of fans want different things so i know it is not a simple thing to address.But there are a few things in recent years that could of been changed that supporters wanted and would not of cost any money yet nothing changed.( 3 examples) 1. 7.30 start means a 7.30 start meeting to go through promptly. 2.If a rider does not touch the tapes referee made to release the tapes no call backs. 3. Kids get to see the riders before the start and mingle with them hopefully persuading them to be the next generation to replace the oldies.

I think you will find you are mistaken re Ged and Neil.

Harringay was a strange sort of stadium with stands of all shapes and sizes. I worked there a few times in the 1980's, by then it was in a pretty run down state. At one end of the stadium there were big flights of steps that once led to the long gone Arena that was demolished in the late 1950's.

There are no solutions .if you had read the six pages you would understand most people feel the same .

Sadly, I think you're right. Another example of how the sport is being run for the benefit of its paid employees rather than its paying customers.

I'd say its more down to preparation. If a track like Swindon has one line, that's the fault of the curator (although he maybe under orders). Size and shape is crucial (that's why the NSS is as good as it is) but its not the be all and end all. The way I see it, if Scunthorpe can be good for racing there's no reason why Swindon - and others - can't be.

Where is the common sense in a pairs/team event being decided by an individual run off?

What about riders having engines just for fridays time trials... One for use, one spare both built for that one minute fast one and then serviced for the next round??? They’d cost 5500€ each if I’d buy them.

I fear we will not hear from Ged or Neil again. It is almost unbelievable the total disregard for the paying public shown by the Mafia and the seeming contempt in which we are regarded.

The five-page interview with Rob Godfrey in this week's Speedway Star certainly provides food for thought. Firstly, we can only take what we see quoted at face value and perhaps he said more which couldn't be included for space reasons. Benefit of the doubt. While I don't profess to know his background or what he does or doesn't do for the sport today, I've never spoken to the man, there are a number of points raised that I'd like to respond to and are worthy of further critical analysis (sorry to waffle on and hope you stay awake till the end!: SEMI-PRO OR AMATEUR? Rob alludes to, if not quite advocates, the idea of British speedway becoming semi-pro in the future, which (as I suggested in another recent BSF thread) it needs to do NOW in the short-term if it is to survive with any credibility left. He effectively spells it out just why this is the case when referring to the recent demise of Championship treble winners Workington. And the nail is well and truly smashed on the head in a separate, much smaller, item in the same issue of the Star in which Workington promoter Laura Morgan reveals that running the second tier club has cost her around £750,000 in total and that another injection of £75,000 would be required simply to run this year, when Comets would surely expect to incur at least the same loss, if not more given how hard it would be to repeat their 2018 triple. Later in the piece, Rob cites his own Josh Auty as one rider who "seems to make it pay" competing only in one league. If Auty can, who don't many others? As long as promoters keep paying them collectively more than what turnstiles and sponsorship income, they will continue to spend (waste?) money on expensive machinery, engine tuning, mechanics and fancy transport. Only the promoters can stop this happening. FULL-TIME PROMOTERS The question of professional promoters is a double-edged sword. Rob says that of the modern day regime, "not one of us needs to do it". Therein lies one problem: rightly or wrongly, they are not running their clubs on a full-time, 24/7 basis and don't depend on the sport for a living - unlike the likes of Fearman, Ochiltree, Silver, Dunton, Wilson, Thomas, Mawdsley, etc in days gone by. It was their livelihood - yes, of course, there were less counter-attractions competing for fans' money and - but they still had to work hard for it. For many (if not all) of today's ilk, speedway is a hobby they can indulge (for a while at least) to feed their egos. Unfortunately, the sport in Britain has been denigrated so much over the years that there is no turning back. COUNTING THE COST Rob reveals that winning the league (Div 2) in 2012 cost Scunthorpe 30 grand, suggesting Sheffield probably paid a similar price in their pursuit of honours. Later, he gives Glasgow as a prime example of a club that has the slickest PR machine in the country . . . yet still cannot attract sufficient crowds to meet their running costs. This, in itself, tells you all you need to know about promoters over-paying riders. The sums just don't add up. Yes, of course, riders deserve to be paid handsomely for the risks they take. But no business will survive, long-term, if it continues to ignore the basic rules of life: don't pay out more than you can afford. COMPARING THE PAST As for Rob's line about speedway today being "far, far better than it ever was", provocatively reproduced on the Star's front cover, I reckon thousands of our customers at Retro Speedway would vehemently disagree! To be fair, Rob is duty bound to promote his club and modern speedway in general, and in doing tries to discredit the past and (to paraphrase Harold Macmillan) convince his punters that "you've never had it so good". So we must assume that he never had the privilege of enjoying the likes of great entertainers such as Peter Collins, Chris Morton, the Morans, Bruce Penhall, Michael Lee, Ole Olsen, Jan O. Pedersen, Simon Cross, Malcolm Simmons, Mark Loram (started in 1987) . . . the list really is endless and I've not even mentioned the innumerable BL2/National League favourites who thrilled the crowds week in, week out. If he was talking about the Grand Prix, compared to the old and long-winded World Championship qualifying system, I'd be inclined to agree. The GPs routinely serve up tremendous entertainment and invariably top quality racing, where riders of equal ability are well matched. But comparing the GPs with the Elite League matches I've seen on telly is more often than not chalk and cheese. Riders strung out by half-a-lap isn't entertainment, nor any sort of advert for domestic speedway. From what we read, the point Rob doesn't seem to grasp here is that the days of a reserve or middle order man popping out of the gate and holding a world class rider at bay for all four laps are long gone and now rarer than a truthful MP. Speed, and the riders' unquenchable thirst for it, has helped kill the sport as a spectacle, although here the promoters of the mid-70s must shoulder a lot of blame for failing to nip the four-valve revolution in the bud before it sent costs spiralling out of control and that's where we are today. PROMOTING - HIGHLIGHTS PACKAGE I was encouraged to read of the BSPA's plans for a revamped website with hopes to include free-to-air matches. In the same issue I read that Poland will be airing a magazine-style show every Monday. So it begs the question: why haven't the BSPA done a deal with Go-Speed and all the individual DVD filming companies covering the tracks to put together, say, a weekly 30-minute show showcasing the past week's highlights, complemented by interviews with promoters and riders on current topics and burning issues? Would not a sufficient number of fans not be prepared to pay a nominal 50p or £1 per week throughout the season to cover production costs? The show could be offered as a download from the BSPA site with the same show being uploaded to YouTube a week later (if it hit YT at the same time, there would obviously be no point in paying the small sub). For obvious reasons, these edited highlights would not include any from 'live' BT Sport matches. British speedway desperately needs to harness its relationship with BT Sport if it is to have any hope of attracting a national sponsor, or backers for each of the three divisions (alas, Rob did not mention this failure on the BSPA's part). The BSPA already has the ideal experienced and knowledgeable anchor man/presenter on its pay roll in Nigel Pearson, while two or three of the best people producing DVDs could be tasked to edit the best action clips and interviews. Reality is, though, a weekly highlights download via the BSPA site or uploaded to YouTube probably won't attract one new supporters, especially a youngster who can't take his or her eyes off their smart phone for more than a few seconds. This will sound crazy to some, but promoters' priority should be to do all they can to KEEP their existing supporter base and TRY to win back those who have been disenfranchised over the part 10 years. Forget chasing new, young fans . . . speedway just doesn't cut it with them and very probably never will again. So forget them for now and focus all energies on keeping what you have and winning back the old faithful with fresh ideas, well prepared tracks and a professionally run sport. Only last week we at Retro Speedway were delighted to take on five new subscribers to our bi-monthly Backtrack magazine. OK, five in a matter of days is really nothing. But not in the context of where British speedway is now it isn't. They are five people who enjoyed reliving past memories but are now engaging with the sport again. Facebook is the biggest factor in this: whether you personally log on to FB or not and regardless of your personal preferences (FB, forum or Twitter), more and more of the older generation are signing up to Facebook's social media platform to 'chat' to kindred spirits - and that is where the BSPA should be looking to re-recruit former fans who might be tempted back into stadiums. This is where they will find their target audience. SOCIAL MEDIA Rob again uses Glasgow as his best example of a club that does social media very well. But he is wrong to excuse others clubs for not emulating them, or even going close to doing so, by using costs as an excuse. Having a good mate who runs a successful non-league football club, I can confirm that a good promo video was produced for them for as little as £750 . . . or, to put it another way, the equivalent of what some riders in UK speedway earn in one night. Running good Twitter and Facebook platforms is very inexpensive - all that's needed are the right people to manage and execute it to an acceptably professional standard and who have the imagination to offer what supporters should expect from these services. DOUBLING-UP, GUESTS AND RACE FORMAT While Rob was of course asked about how the rampant use of guests and doubling-up does untold harm to the sport's image, he dismisses very lightly the suggestion that the problems would be eased by cutting team numbers from seven to six and adopting a new heat formula (six-man teams have been used in the past). Am I missing something here? British speedway doesn't have enough riders of a certain minimum standard to staff its three leagues, and yet the hierarchy blindly sticks with seven-man teams even though virtually every club in the land is inevitably soon forced into calling up guests and doubling-up riders. Rob admits: "We don't have a big enough crop of riders without doubling-up, which is what causes all the problems". We know what the problems are, Rob. What we desperately need from people like you who govern and run the sport are solutions and ideas. Six-man teams (even in the short-term, until the young Brits coming up are up to scratch in a few years' time) won't eradicate the needs for guests, R/R and doubling-up but surely it's a no-brainer as at least a starting point . . . or please tell me why it isn't? What disillusions me more than anything when I read comments from promoters in the wake of another BSPA AGM is the chronic lack of ideas and innovation. I mean, why aren't one or two competitions run on slightly different formats and rules? Where's the variety - if not in terms of team numbers, then at least in competition formats? Even the rightly much-maligned England & Wales Cricket Board (ECB) had the gumption to realise that fans needed more than a staple diet of four-day Championship games and the sport has generally reaped the benefit of introducing two DIFFERENT limited-overs formats, the 50-over one-day league and T20 knockout comp, which are replicated in all major cricketing countries. I'd like to see a promoter come up with something a bit radical and off the wall. Put on a 16 or 20-heat meeting that embraces different sections: team racing and individual events; perhaps throw in a couple of match-races (Golden Helmet & Silver Helmet - remember them?); a few handicap races where the top riders start off the back grid; a 4-heat 250cc juniors event; maybe even a ladies' race (look how much national publicity is afforded to women's football and cricket at domestic and international level ). Indeed, why not run the KO Cup along these lines for a season on an experimental basis? Supporters might actually look forward to attending, because it's DIFFERENT. But with British speedway, it's the tired, predictable same old, same old. Lots of ongoing, familiar problems, very few solutions.

Started from scratch in 2005 & fixtures/buildings added when financially possible. Not a greyhound stadium leased for speedway & not council owned with millions thrown at it. Sheffield & Belle Vue, both your tracks, although slightly different, are "throttle on blast round" as you conveniently say.

The best racing I've seen on a week-to-week basis is at modern day Scunthorpe, so I understand Rob Godfrey's statement. If I'd have been privileged to watch racing on a weekly basis at Hyde Road in the 70s, maybe I'd disagree. To be honest, I don't think the racing is any better or any worse. The big difference is the atmosphere during meetings - that's not the same. And that's down to crowds being a fraction of what they were.

The considered opinion is that Rev Limiters only have any effect at the start. Back in my days as a 17 year old owner of a Triumph Tiger Cub, we had a rev limiter! Only it was just called a throttle in those days!

I for one am looking forward to the new season

Agree Czech golden helmet is a big accolade scotty finished in the top 10 in the world on 4 occasions and has a record number of British titlesI really don’t see that as underachieving

But IF it were to be - King's Lynn: Lambert, Iversen, Riss. ( Also rumoured ) Just about as good as anyone else.

I think the biggest positive is its another season of speedway at Foxhall for those that want to go and watch it.

Other than for Doyle, Fricke or Robert Lambert I can't see any bids coming forward if such a thing existed. Chequebook speedway long ago departed from speedway other than perhaps the maximum allowed by contactless cards (£29.99 )

Agree totally but it’s easy to invite calls when all teams are full and another 7 riders still looking for a team after the demise of Workington. I will be happy if we have 7 men standing at the end of April early season is usually carnage. Personally think most teams have a fairly long tail this year due to the points limit.