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The whole culture is different because the Sport has credibility.... If Poland ran their Leagues in such a 'Mickey Mouse' fashion as British Speedway does then simply they wouldn't enjoy anywhere near the same coverage... Part of the Polish success story (and the success story of any team sport at whatever level) is that 'tribal loyalty' that is built up through the identity of their teams... Polish fans simply wouldn't stand for the No1 rider of their fiercest rivals wearing their colours and representing them on an adhoc basis... As it fundamentally goes against what team sport should be... I remember how hard it was for Darcy Ward to be accepted by his own ZG fans when they signed him, as they saw him as a Torun man.. In Britain in one single week you could be a Wolverhampton rider on a Monday, a Somerset rider on a Wednesday, and a Swindon rider on a Thursday and actually be the Belle Vue No1....! (Who also represents his contracted team of Glasgow on a Friday, but rides for Workington on a Saturday and Newcastle on a Sunday)... Simply nonsense... And will never generate any decent national mainstream media coverage as it simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny... As it wouldn't in Poland if they ran the Sport the same way...

None of that really made much of a difference... The key things they did which drove the success of the Sport in Poland were the following... They found great success in letting riders dictate to clubs when they would be available, meaning they had to ride on nights to suit the riders earnings rather than when the spectators wished meetings to be ran... They also saw great benefit and positive feedback from the mainstream media by allowing meetings to take place with the two teams in attendance regularly being made up by any random couple of septets who happened to be available. Septets that had been cobbled together on an adhoc basis on any given evening, to wear the colours of the two clubs competing.. Another master stroke was ensuring that as many riders as possible were contracted to as many teams as possible, preferably covering (thus impacting), three leagues, which meant "guests" were in great demand, bringing that much needed lack of credibility to almost every match that takes place.. Possibly their finest idea was to produce a fixture list and then systematically dismantle it halfway during the season so plenty of "guests" can always be available. (And spectators who had booked time off work, and maybe hotels to watch their team, become disillusioned). A fixture list which had been put together in the first place with a clear plan to avoid running meetings during the warmer, dryer Summer months, and instead, cramming in as many meetings as possible towards October and November when it becomes colder and wetter. With the genius add on of running "dead rubber" League meetings to qualify for the play offs, AFTER the play offs have been completed and the League has already been won.. Add in an admission fee that has no correlation to the entertainment value on offer, but goes up by inflation busting amounts annually, allied to a year on year reduction in the overall quality of riders on show, and you surely have the perfect recipe for success.. Cannot think why the BSPA don't run something along similar lines.. Sure to be a winner...

Gazc for his wit and for relentlessly owning all monarch posters on here when the debate goes into patter wars. Halifaxtiger for his knowledge on all tracks and up and coming riders he could be a speedway scout for the mighty Tiger's. Dontforgetthefueltapsbruv on every thread talking sense and is very fair and reasonable too into the bargin. Paulco for fantastic match reports very fair minded bloke. And a great ambassador for Glasgow Speedway. Tyretrax. Special mention too u love the tigers and its honest and i feel your pain. oh tigergirl your enthusiasm gushes through your posts too, true tiger!

Nice to encounter one of life's natural optimists.

EVEN if speedway in Norwich was a huge success it would never rival soccer in the shape of Norwich City. Places like Torun, Gorzow, Leszno, and Zielona Gora are towns where speedway is the undisputed number one sport, it is what they are synonymous with, and the fans that attend are doing so in support of not just the club but the town itself. The whole culture is different and is reflected in the media at all levels including TV.

And what are your qualifications to give any rider advice??

As someone who got addicted to Speedway with the Bulldogs in 77, I fear we will never see or hear the roar of a speedway bike in Bristol again. I have so many fond memories...it's under my skin and I keep logging back into this forum to keep up to date. However...after the demise of the Bulldogs and then following Swindon, Newport and Somerset around the Country...I'm left in despair. I haven't watched one single meeting this past season...either live or on TV. I'm so depressed with how this sport is run. I can't give it my time or effort...it's a complete farce. However...it feels like a son or daughter who has strayed...and you are still thir for them. You can't help the love...but you know deep down it's totally screwed. So sad...yet so simple to resolve. The sooner the old school promoter dies the better...bunch of clowns that only have the interest of their pockets. The sooner Speedway riders realise they aren't like any other Motorsport...the better. Apart from Poland...they are a Garden Shed product...yet they want to portray an F1 type status. It's total bullrubbish...smoke and mirrors. Speedway is followed by Lower working class people with very little disposable income...said with respect...it's run by Promoters that are no better than second hand car salesman, Circus Clowns, found out by TV and sponsorship. It's a total shambles. I just feel for the kid I was at 12yo age....who got addicted and wanted to ride a bike and have fun. And then got a bunch of speedway politics thrown at me. Same for riders....same for public....it's all complete bullrubbish...yet it's totally ingrained in our lives and hard to ignore. Totally punch drunk with the whole affair.

Cant see it being possible to get the points money down to £40 per point I dont think the Ippo reserves were even on as low as that and the top end probably double at least At £40 a rider averaging 6 would be earning less than £10k from 40 meetings - that doesnt even cover 1 bike for a season let alone a 2nd (or more) as is expected by clubs (and fans) and thats before they earn anything!! Ippo I estimate average 1000+ and I doubt make a profit (although due possibly to paying above average rates and higher stadium rent than most) To achieve such a reduction I think you are looking at a NL+ standard rather than even a diluted Championship It does show that all is reliant on those sponsors and benefactors Re admission - certainly not a £10 sport - thats a pie in the sky thought Where we are now at £15-18 is about right for the mid level league I think a proper 'top league' could go to £20+

The biggest indication of the attraction, that this sport has, is that it is incapable of retaining the interest of the current die-hard supporters let alone attract new ones. But the BSPA, ACU don't appear to grasp this dire situation. Governed by Promoters with personal objectives , the sport has always been the second thought. So antiquated in their ideas and the way they address the fans is appalling. They don't seem to grasp the importance of them fans, and it is little wonder they lose interest. They have this secret society that you are not allowed to know the problems or the plans. Its about time they realise we are on the same side and we all want the sport to prosper. While the fans are continued to be treated like mushrooms nothing will ever change. There's not much time left...

Ive cut it down to what I see as the most important point Whilst the sport can only attract 500 or so then the price charged is almost irrelevant IMO

Honestly It is not just the teams you have quoted who run at a loss nearly all of the promotions in all the leagues are "blowing their brains out", however when you talk to these guys it is the same old "Hydraulics" "oh we have made a small profit", or "oh we have broke even this year" or the old chestnut "oh we have only made a small loss but we are nearly their". One promoter advised that "I've nearly balanced the books and only took a seven grand hit this year due to buying a 25 grand air fence, next year I am in the black" on further due diligence inspection prior to a possible investment that £7k loss was actually and £85k loss and the following year there was another £75k loss. When are these people going to realise, when is the message going to get through, how the sport is being run (especially in the top two leagues) is just not sustainable. We can not compete financially with Poland or anywhere else on the European continent for that matter. Currently British Speedway is being run as a "feeder country" for the Polish Leagues and we may have to revert back to the semi pro or fully amateur format that we once run in the past and stick with that for a period before we can climb back to anywhere near the way the sport was. BluPanther may have put up a really negative post however under the current terms of reference the sport has major difficulties and he may well be correct in his assumptions (unfortunately) Regards THJ

THAT'S not what I said and as someone who has visited Polish speedway towns no doubt you know that. Of course there is a place for team speedway in the UK. It is the only type that can possibly work.

Richard Hollingsworth is the best man for the job .

Good shout but Berwick's best crowds are against Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Redcar, Workington. What kind of crowds would they get against Buxton, Isle of Wight, etc. Dropping into the NL they would still have to pay the same rent for the stadium. As regards weekends off now and again, one of the biggest complaints this season has been the lack of meetings and gaps in the fixture list.

I do think that £16 is a completely fair price for an adult. Could even reach £18 and I think it would be well worth the entertainment (considering some championship tracks do charge this and more, with no greater facilities than Derwent Park). As for concessions, it would be wrong to scrap the discounted rate in my opinion as the majority of the current audience are 65+. However, a concession rate is offered for ages 16-17, students and OAP’s. The argument has been raised regarding retired people having more disposable income. What about the massive amount of young workers (24 and under), apprentices, that earn a totally lower pay rate than ages 25+. No discount is given. Maybe this could explain a lack of interest from young people. There will never be an answer to please everybody. It is seemingly difficult to pull in new fans, but we can protect the club with what we already have. Every little helps, plenty of fundraising, people contributing to Workington Speedway Trust. It would be a real shame to lose the club we love after such a brilliant season.

Really? You want to swap 2 meaningful heats for 6 un meaningful heats that the crowd aren't bothered about, from my memory at least 50% of the crowd left after the match, then some of the top riders were not interested and often dropped out anyway followed by whoever was in the Rider of the Night Final agreeing to split the prize money whatever the result

Would they not try run a nl team team to keep the track running ,the likes of Eastbourne and Birmingham seem to have put decent competitive teams together and have kept a decent crowd level and not lost any money from what I hear they would have a decent team with some local riders in Leon and kerion plus the likes of mitch Davy Luke Ruddick Ryan MacDonald Kev Whelan blair Smith that would give locals something to cheer about and with less matches could have a weekend of now and again and with having the training track on their doorstep could bring riders up from there, also there wage bill would be easy quarter less than they pay out now and with local riders the local press might cover it more

Thats terrible This year Ipswich didnt run the 16 Lapper which was due as part of the season ticket A pro rata refund cheque was sent within a couple of weeks of the confirmation the season was finished with a letter apologising for the meeting not happening and thanking the fan for their valuable support

Cannot really generalise about concessions some pensioners are well off, some are scraping by , the current admission cost is about right .......if we (Worky) we’re getting about 800-1000 people through the gates! Do not really know what the future holds for Speedway in this country , riders want to ride in different leagues (double up/ down) to make ends meet but fans want to see their own riders every week and not go missing either for other British teams or riding abroad. We need to make the sport more credible and professional but I do not have all the answers , it’s all about costs, riders want more money and who can blame them whilst fans want value for money.i A slick well run meeting between April and September with October as a last resort is what is needed but will things change as fans on This forum have been speaking out but the promotions do not listen!,

Maybe the bspa will introduce a doubling up fan rule !!!

Over the years I have watched Wimbledon with Ronnie Moore when the locals thought it was a bad meeting if the visitors go within 10 points of the Dons! Provincial League racing at Hackney, plus racing in all three leagues over the last 30 years whatever they were called at the time. After 60 years of watching racing, in my opinion, it is not how good the riders are that in fact matters, it is that the teams are of similar standard. I would much prefer to watch a National League match that ends 46-44 than a Premiership match featuring the World Champion and another GP rider which ends 60-30. The advantage of lower division racing is that they make mistakes so there is often more overtaking and fewer from the gate processions. If the BSPA can get racing that is close with passing then whether the races take 55 seconds or 59 seconds will not matter as people will be enjoying the close racing and not be worried about who the riders are.

Isn't 'pointless tweet' an example of oxymoron?

Some would argue that it is a good move, as it would get rid of his three rides quicker. There seems to be little mention of the fact that Danny was coming back after a serious injury (bearing in mind the doctors told him to forget about riding again after the injury occurred). Some take longer to get back to a level they were at (he was averaging over 4 in the PL when the injury happened). The only thing you can have a go at him (or indeed the Scunthorpe Management) for is he came back too quickly at the higher level and maybe should have concentrated on the NL for the season.

Vulnerability to shoulder and neck injuries is sadly the undoing of many of the more tall and slender riders whether earlier or later on in their riding careers. Being more box-shaped seems to be more advantageous, in the long run.

THE biggest difference and the greatest advantage for Polish clubs is that they are representative of the towns and cities in which they are situated. That has not been the case with speedway in the UK for generations and will not change. Polish speedway clubs are akin to soccer teams in the UK.

Maybe that's the answer to ensuring you have a full stadium, week in week out. You announce at each meeting, the next one will be the last!

One seasons experience of him at Berwick was more than enough to see he wasn’t fit for purpose

No that was Bill , he doesnt go anymore as he goes to a lot of rock gigs round about Glasgow and theyre mostly on a Friday and Saturday night . Aye him and i and Alan McFarlane have had a few boozy away trips , especially to Somerset .

£16 is a fair price. Would i be prepared to pay more to help the club survive and attract a better team ? Yes i would. I visit Glasgow and Edinburgh to watch the Comets both of which are more expensive. I would pay £18 . £2 is neither here nor there. Would i standardise the price for adults ? , yes i would for the same reason. Kids under 16 free i have always advocated. Raise the price and expectations increase so the product and how it is presented has to be all it can be.

Monday 12th - Wednesday 14th

I stopped watching Wolves in the 2010 season when we came back and although I can't remember the cost back then the racing most weeks was fantastic whatever the cost. I went to most Wolves home meetings last season but for whatever reason the racing was nowhere near as good. At £18 I don't think it was vfm. I did miss some meetings if there was too many guests or if an away team had visited recently. I'l be going again next season but will probably pick and choose especially if the price increases. Also, I'd imagine we may cut down on away meetings a bit due to cost .(And the usual farce episodes) (to many to list)

For what it's worth I think current prices are about right, but don't think concessions should be got rid of, as a vast majority of crowds at Workington ( and other places ) fall into this category, you would lose more money as a lot of older people would not pay. Another point that should be considered is have fewer meetings a month, one week home, one week away, a bit like football, sometimes less is more,

Or allow guest fans? Or just simply stick to asking those who still go to "Bring a Friend"...

The above post in this thread gives a list of costs for entertainment. It misss out the cost of Stock Car, Banger and Hot Rod meetings which range from around £10 to £20 for normal meetings depending on which classes are racing and which stadium/promoter is involved. When I started watching both bikes and cars on stadium ovals in the late 50s and 60s the cost of going to cars and bikes was between 4/- and 7/6d (20p to 38p for those who don't remember proper money). The cost of top league football was also in a similar range but football admission prices have gone up more than oval racing due to the massive wage increases in football. I have purchased tickets to two matches at Fulham for myself and my wife this season. One game cost £55 for the two of us and the other £85. At Rye House this season it cost £18 for adults and £16 for over 60s so for two meetings for the two of us it would have totalled £64 while football has cost £140 which, for what I have seen so far this year makes speedway admission prices reasonable. I would love it to be cheaper but the costs of running or hiring a stadium plus insurance and staff make that unlikely. The riders are often blamed for wanting too much money for racing but how many of us would be prepared to take the risks they take in pursuit of making a living? From the end of World War Two until the mid 60s there was very little entertainment at home (two TV channels, four radio channels plus Luxembourg and the pirates), now we have goodness knows how many TV channels, a massive number of radio stations, videos, DVDs and internet. People have reduced how often they go out and become couch potatoes who except for football and firework displays very rarely go out and that has hit speedway and a number of other sports badly. I don't see how the promoters can beat the change in habits of most families but a little real promoting would help. Rye House had a large advertising board at the entrance with the date and time of the next meeting. When I arrived for meetings it normally showed the date of the previous meeting or was blank! I know there was limited passing traffic but what traffic there was did not get the message about the racing and would have thought that it had maybe closed months before it actually it. A bad case of not helping your own promotion! Those of us who the BSPA have not alienated need to start taking friends and do our best to encourage them to keep coming back, I know the BSPA make it hard to justify the sport being professional but we need to do our best if we are to be able to continue enjoying the racing we love.

Of course! Think before posting next time. Perhaps tautology is what I had in mind.

I don't see Speedway as a £10 sport at all, too little for top entertainment.......the 2018 rates at Workington being fair for all. (£16 and £13.....kids ???) Yes pensioners should have their concession................those who disagree will be guaranteed to change their minds in the future....shame on greedy Glasgow. "pensioners have more disposable income than workers.".....wow. no way ....especially if you work at Sellafield...top pay......outdoes pension by far....had taste of this former comfort and now on much less via latter coz of age.....not by choice lol.

Could just be that it's Tuesday today.

Pensioners have more disposable income then workers!!!,where does that stat come from?

Qualifier dates: 08th June ACU Qualifying Round 1 Glasgow Great Britain 08th June SMF Qualifying Round 2 Zarnovica Slovakia 08th June FMI Qualifying Round 3 Lamothe L. France 10th June DMSB Qualifying Round 4 Abensberg Germany 24th August HMS Challenge Gorican Croatia

Not quite (whats this fixation with fining all the time) In very (very) basic terms the promoters can attend on the Monday (if they want) along with everyone else and hear what BSPA monies they will receive from the shared events, TV revenues etc. (if any) and learn what the outline agenda is with the proposals for next year. They are then asked at the end of the Monday if they intend to run next year, if "No" they go home on the Monday and take no further part in the AGM. If "Yes" they stay until the Wednesday and input into the meeting and debate the proposals, they are then asked again on the Wednesday if they are still prepared to run under the terms that come out of the AGM proposals. If "Yes" well "Bob's ya Uncle" and away you go, if "No" unfortunately its a case of Sell, Ice the Licence or shut down, or there could be a fourth option of a fans collective taking on the franchise if the owners are up for that and prepared to loan whatever assets they hold to the franchise. (But it ain't cheap and there has to be a solid business plan in place) however if no one was to attend from the promotion they would proxy their vote or just advise that they are not running. Many promotions didn't attend last years AGM yet weren't fined. Regards THJ

Amazing article in this week’s Speedway Star special by Tomasz Lorek on how Polish speedway has TV companies fighting for rights with mind-boggling figures. It’s a must-read for every British promoter and fan.

I understand your fears but I think putting barriers between the leagues is not the answer. We have to recognise that any rider would want to compete at the highest level his ability allows and to place punitive conditions on riders moving from NL to CL (or CL to PL) is not in the best interests of the sport or the riders. The reality is that Speedway operates a progressive regime. Generally speaking, young riders start out their careers in the NL and, when their skills allow, move to the CL and thence to the PL. To place an artificial 'glass ceiling' above the NL to prevent riders fulfilling their potential in the upper leagues (and punishing them if they dare to try) is not in the best interests of the sport or its riders. Speedway needs to find ways of encouraging teams and riders to work together progressively for the good of the sport and improve its marketing image as an entertaining and competitive family sport to attract people back to the terraces. The Pathfinder report does it for me.

Basically British Speedway is up for sale. Might even be able to get a BOGOF deal.

Well i guess all the moaners will be happy now that the club is for sale, and they wont have to moan about the quality of racing next season,

He’s about to come good

You're asking too much there .......

The 28 ban would extend to both leagues though Ray

And if they get anything it`s at "standard pay" scale which will be a fraction of what they are owed.

Surely if you cough up the bond, that should entitle you to a seat at the table. A sport like speedway needs fresh ideas, not the same old voices.

A lot of work gone in here. But a marketing plan that doesn't mention online strategy and frankly seems 20 years out of date. Mention of need to develop riders skills by racing at the highest level, then proposes reducing the standard of top flight racing?