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It was the comments from a main league supporter that got my back up Bagpuss . Those of us with long memories remember how the 2nd tier clubs got stitched up the last time we went down the one big league road in 1995 .Added to that the fate of Birmingham and Rye House makes us very wary of moving up .

Would like to say I'm deeply sorry for my treatment to starman. It was very out of character for me. I ashamed myself and many forum members. I'm sorry to anyone who was offended especially starman

Should it be made mandatory next season onwards that no more rr, or if rr still used it's mandatory to have a number 8's From my point of view there should always be full teams. You don't see other team sports with players missing and no reserves.

Yes they can. Not out of choice but that is what happens with 'feelings'. I have been one of them myself. My allegiance changed dramatically in 1986. I went from being an ultra committed Halifax fan of 15 years standing to being a very semi-detatched Bradford attendee in one winter. Being born and brought up in Halifax meant that Bradford was always 'somewhere else'. Not my town. Not my team. My team had gone. Of course my allegiance was severed all too permanently by KC 's death. So I will never know what would have happened over the ensuing years if he had lived. But within a couple of years i found a new Team at Belle Vue and left the Dukes behind. And was able to enjoy October 25, 1993 as a true born again Aces fanatic ... at Wolves with very little passing ...But a packed high energy crowd with so much at stake in Every race and last hear decider which we won. Making it the best meeting i have ever attended despite the racing being mediocre at best. The celebrations in the bar that night were about the team ... Not the track

That really is the final inevitable end game though Dean... And let's be honest, 'Team Speedway' is now a misnomer in GB (and maybe everywhere?).. It's just an avenue for riders to earn money riding all over Europe and no more than that.. How many times do riders get interviewed on TV and get asked about the score line and they haven't actually got a clue as to what the score is? During interviews that seems to ask more questions about their next individual meeting than the actual meeting they are in that night!!... Cook and Harris say they cannot make ends meet without racing in more than one team over here, and I don't dispute that as these are the lads 'living the dream'... Unfortunately, no matter how you desperately try and ensure none of their teams are effected by clashes, it will be inevitable. So fans will suffer, and the actual credibility of the match they miss will suffer too, which ultimately then means the League itself suffers from a lack of credibilty... (Therefore who cares who wins it?) Surely therefore it would be better for these lads financially to ride five or six times a week individually at different tracks? At least the events the tracks put on will have credibility, no guests, no R/R, on nights that they want to open to bring in the best crowds.. 26 Venues could deliver a lot of Speedway over a season to a lot of riders... The bottom line is a simple one though.. If you cannot run 'Team Speedway' properly then you are better off not running it at all as you can 100% NEVER make it successful.. And you can never run it properly if riders cannot make it pay representing one club like a 'proper' team Sport would allow.... And you can never run it properly with riders having to regularly miss their teams' matches to ride individually elsewhere.. Surely its got to be better for the actual growth and success of the Sport overall (and the riders too), to have the Sport looking professional, running it with credibility, and delivering to the fans what their expectations of a 'proper' Sport is...? Rather than the current cobbled together adhoc operating model, masquerading itself as a bona fide 'Team Sport' concept... An operating model that does absolutely no one (Promoters, Riders, Fans and the actual Sport itself), any good at all... (And never can or will)...

Thank you for your appology, it has been accepted.

Very good meeting tonight, best I've seen at Foxhall for a while with plenty of passing. Redcar were good value for their point, Jorgensen particularly impressive. Possibly harshly done by with his heat 13 exclusion too, depending on the angle people saw. Berge and Jonas Andersen improved over the meeting, however Barker, whilst all action, looked slow and couldn't make much of the impact. The reserves struggled, never looked comfortable. For the Witches, Schlein, Covatti and Heeps all did a decent job. Covatti was unlucky with a puncture and Schlein cutting him off in heat 15 when he possibly thought he was Jorgensen. Mark Riss looks a very good signing at home, clearly very comfortable at Foxhall. Garcia tried hard, throwing himself around everywhere and I'm sure he'll improve around Foxhall which will be needed against higher quality reserve pairings. As for Wallinger, there isn't really much to say. I didn't expect him to score a point but watching a Championship rider having to free wheel into the bends in his first race was a new experience. He might get Redcar away next week but I'd be amazed if he's still in the side for the next home meeting. You have to feel for him as he's completely out of his depth, an incredible decision from the promotion which needs explaining. An 'enthusiastic approach' is certainly not a good enough reason to sign a rider! Tom Brennan, Nathan Stoneman, Josh Bailey and Ryan Kingsley are all clear, stronger options. I presume Bailey has an average so probably can't guest but the other three must be able too and I'm sure they won't turn down the opportunities at Foxhall. On a sidenote, really pleased to see Connor Mountain win the Top Gun Individual at Sheffield tonight. Congratulations Connor.

Well done Rebels. They are looking an excellent team.

He's probably like me, 200 miles away, watching updates.

I'd say that's inaccurate as saying that the racing is irrelevant, its all about the team. There are those - and I am definitely one of them - who go to speedway just for the sheer excitement of it all and hence go to tracks where racing is best I have absolutely no doubt, though, that the overwhelming majority of speedway supporters are not like that and go to watch their team. Some will even put up with rubbish on the track every week. That is evidenced by the debate, argument and bias on this forum. As a good example, I went to Belle Vue on Monday for the quality of the speedway. My friend - a long time season ticket holder - was there to support the Aces. In my - considerable - experience the racing today is no better or worse in general than it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. While I am of the opinion that a better standard of racing would pull more people in, falling crowds are not down to an equally falling standard out on the track. Belle Vue is easily the best racing track in the country, yet their gates have apparently fallen by about 30% this season. The racing is as good as ever; the decline has been down to the change in race night, nothing more.

The difference is even if they can't gate these 3 will always have a go and not just sit back and accept whatever position they are in, leading to 'follow the leader' racing. Riders can and do pass regularly on the Leicester track but unfortunately it's usually the visiting ones. Looking forward to seeing Scott's wide outside line on the 4th bend again.

Harris could always become a taxi driver and chauffeur people around in his 80 grand Range Rover. Give two people 100 quid and one will have spent it the same day whilst the the other may still have 50 quid left - I don't think it's a lack of income for those two but what they do with it. I always remember two professional riders who were England stars in the 80s/90s. One used to spend an awful lot of money/use sponsors to get brand new gear every year - the other kept almost everything the same except for leathers and guards/covers. Their performances were comparable every year but I'm sure one had more in the bank!

Seems like Steve Hayward's work on infield last week will become a permanent gig. Well done, Steve-o!

I don't think you can say that the team 'comes above everything else'. In speedway, in particular, the quality of the entertainment is important. Speaking to a Belle Vue fan on Monday (a season ticket holder of long standing), he said if the Aces started losing a lot at home he'd consider stopping going. I think that is true of a lot of speedway fans - they can be most fickle. It can't be a question of the team being everything if you are willing to drop them after a few home defeats and a potential bottom of the league placing. In addition, if the team is winning and the speedway is excellent that is more likely to attract more people than winning alone. Even if the team is losing good quality racing will always entice spectators. I am pretty sure that Scunthorpe, for example, pull in more for the racing than for the team. It is a matter of the team, you're right. But that's not the be all and end all. Get the team and the racing right and you're more likely to be on to a winner.

Fair comment and apologies - think with the whirlwind week of changes Witches fans are just very much caught up in their own bubble The Bears were deserving of their point without really threatening to take away any more All got stuck in and had their moments with Jorgensen particularly impressing A decent meeting and they are only possible when both teams play a part

Hopefully Rory and Nico work things out a bit better than heat 15 at Foxhall tonight

Crowds are in double digit decline YOY. Its massive. The majority of fans may go for the team element but what is the majority now? 1k on average per top flight team? Its dropping like a stone so if I was developing this sport I would instantly change the dynamic. Speedway isn't adapting. You can't sell a product if the product isn't right. I've ran my own pubs/restaurants throughout my career. Without blowing my own trumpet, I'm very successful with it. My guest is KING. Absolutely nobody leaves my businesses unhappy. What the customer wants, the customer gets. Period. As a consequence my trip advisor ratings are through the roof. That is the basis of any business. Stability in the foundations. Make sure the product you sell is bang on the money and then you start to promote and sell/expand. This is where speedway fails every single time. You can't sell a team aspect if the racing (the core product/foundation) isn't right. I'm not saying the team element isn't important, it is, but it will stand for nothing if the main event doesn't capture your customer. I'll say for the umpteenth time, ask ANY neutral with a minimal knowledge of this sport how they feel about it, and they will all give the same answer. They are going to tell you they were bored. They are not interested in the team element. They only come once, because the main event didn't sell. If one of my restaurants started showing any sign of decline or poor guest feedback I would immediately pull the plug on any marketing or sales driving until I identified the issue and fixed it. That is called being counter productive and will do more harm than good trying to grow something that isn't working. If one of my businesses was in the same level of decline as speedway, I wouldn't be listening to the remaining guests I had telling me everything was fine, because it quite clearly isn't. Just because those minimal fans that attend speedway say they go for the team element doesn't mean that the team element is right, because your declining like crazy! It's an utterly stupid logic and displays a basic lack of common sense. A lot of supporters still in this sport are the same ones as 20/30 years ago. Speedway doesn't know how to capture a new audience and like it's core, declining fan base, is stuck in 1985. Society has moved forward. For speedway it really isn't difficult. The speedway is the hook, the team element is the sell. In that order.

Because, as I'm sure you agree, teams are absolutely irrelevant. It's a line trotted out by people minus a brain cell. The declining crowds tell us quite clearly that the racing is the core issue. You can't sell a team aspect if the product is boring. You address the racing first, get the customer on the hook and THEN push the team element. This is schoolboy stuff imo. It's really really simple. I'm perplexed that the majority just don't get it.

Precisely The thing is that speedway has never been - apart from for the top boys - a full time occupation even during the season. History contains many examples of that - Gary Peterson, despite being a top rider in the NL, complaining that he could not make it pay in the late 1960's, Mick Bell, a championship winner on 3 occasions in the 1970's British League saying that it was 'just a good paying hobby', Dave Morton, a heat leader in the 1985 Ellesmere Port team, admitting that he had to go into the motor trade and, perhaps the most telling of all, Tony Davey - an 8.5 rider in the British League in the 1970's - saying that he would have to sell his car to buy a new engine. Doubling up solves that problem, but it creates a disastrous situation for the sport in that you either have teams full of guests or clubs are forced to ride on nights when they cannot attract crowds. Riders are simply going to have to realise that this cannot continue, or they will only be turning for one team because so many have closed. Dean said the other day - and he is absolutely right - that the tail is wagging the dog. Riders simply have to wake up and smell the coffee, realise that speedway isn't a full time occupation and adapt accordingly.

Amasing init. Phil the Ace hd the good grace to appologise to me for what he said, for which i accepted his appology, several others have backed him up with good grace,and expressed there thoughts for me. Yet some on here still want to turn a thread like this into some sort of other form of unnessersary conversation. Its taken a lot of guts for Phil to do what he's done which i appreciate, but some just dont seem to understand what he has done and what im still going through. In short, take your needless conversations elsewhere.

Ok i know I said I'd stop but..If Emil was concerned enough about Lambert to slow down to block the inside. Is it not possible that if Woffy had slowed on the inside it would have forced Emil wide? Worst case Emil passes Woffy and Russia still win. Best case tgat inside run from Lambert thst had worried Emil sees him through? They did have a 50/50 head to head record over the two days. And 14+4 vs 11+2 from 12 And 11regulation heats respectively arent miles apart. It's a bit like the England football team - surpassing expectations, but will there be a better chsnce of a world title? (Actually in fairness, Woffy and Lambert could be in contention for the next 10 years in this format)

If you check the MDL Facebook page, you'll find I posted all the averages, results and league table up to and including the 30th June. So in answer to the question posed by 'adonis', yes somebody does care, and I spend endless hours trying to publicise these details for all three junior leagues, plus the British Amateur Riders' League thank you very much.

Some people just have to have a dig.

Friday 27/7 Scunthorpe v Sheffield Friday 3/8 Edinburgh v Scunthorpe Friday 10/8 Workington v Newcastle Friday 17/8 Scunthorpe v Berwick & Workington v Lakeside Friday 24/8 Scunthorpe v Ipswich Friday 31/8 Edinburgh v Workington Scunthorpe being back at full strength????? That is what most fans want to see. Their own riders & 7 v 7. But then again, injuries can happen at any time & now Josh has joined Steve & Jason in doubling up so more risk. Who knows what the future may hold.

My team came second mind you it was a long time ago when I went to hestherlands

It's not the 2 pointer that's the problem. It's the consistency of the rest of the team, they're not scoring the points together. You have rider's scoring 12 one week then 5 the next. Smith can score between 1 and 3 and is doing his job.

Scott Nicholls isn't a journeyman... according to the website he's a hearthrob

When you look back to when the sport was last in dire straights along came Mike Parker and soon after we had the boom years of the 70,s and 80,s so it can be done, where are we going to find another MP that is the question. JC does have some good ideas and im sure would be a very good asset in an advisory capacity as stated above.

I have seen Speedway in America and it was a great night out... From sidecars to kids speedway racing, all the way through to the 'headliners'... I watched Ryan Fisher at aged 11 or 12 (him sadly not me!), blitz much older lads from a handicap of 30m and the crowd were going mental, latching on to one so young beating his peers.. I watched Dan Bewley last year in the Colts and one particular night he blitzed all the other riders and won every race by 30 - 40m. For the first two rides you were (as a seasoned watcher of the Sport) taken aback by how good this kid was.... However, by the third time you had watched him leave the rest for dead it got a little bit tedious and you longed for one of the others to at least give him a race... If someone else who had no appreciation of the Sport was there, they would have watched all his races with complete indifference I would have said.. Putting Dan off 30 or 40m that night though would have had everyone there on the edge of their seats I would suggest as he fought his way through the field... Maybe it is time for a few individual meetings to liven up the Sport?.. Handicap racing? 'Devil take the hindmost'? Speed trap award for fastest MPH at a certain point of the track? Two Riders starting via lights at opposite sides of the track like in velodrome cycle racing eg Bewley and Cook at the NSS would split the fanbase too and maybe have the fans shouting on their favourites creating some atmosphere!? Maybe Sidecars? Kids racing? 8 man races with two starting gates? and off track entertainment too, the usual bouncy castles, face painting, fanzone, photo ops, poster giveaways etc, etc, (basically lots aimed at kids).... Even raffle off tickets for the next 'Team' meeting' and flog some discounted tickets if the crowd is healthy... Run the scratch event maybe nationally with points being earned through the year track to track with a BIG final at the end of the year (with a BIG prize) for those who qualified.. The level of rider on show would stretch from heat leader to junior I would suggest, particularly if the handicap racing is to deliver... In short, the Sport when done really well is a cracking night out, and has all the ingredients for any 'layperson' to find entertaining.... It's current crowds are pitiful... But given the 'raw materials' it has to work with, they really shouldn't be....

Has to be part of the way forward.

I think certain riders got a stay of execution after Monday even though it was a depleted Robins team. Another defeat to BV on Monday and I think changes will have to happen

As far as I know Leicester was purpose built in recent years. Looking at a top view I don't really see many constraints, so why it is shaped as it is seems odd to me. Could easily have been built as a proper race track..... unless some one knows different.

Seems strange if Leicester is so gate & go to sign the likes of Nicholls, Robson & Auty who can't gate for toffee.

its about 3 metres from Middlesbrough! Had to call it Redcar tho. Sorry i find the idea of the pairs gimmicky Gimmicks are one of the things that have dragged us down. Its a sport, a team sport, and i would prefer that to be the focus.

Glasgow are in the fortunate position of owning the stadium which is a massive plus on racing whenever we want. On the flip side is having enough fixtures to actually race, oh for the days of weekly Speedway.

Half the riders who have gone this season have been due to injuries, and needing to make a change often impacts another rider to make the numbers work. Would you prefer they ran with R/R and three guests? If riders come in to do a job then score at two points below their starting average they can't expect to keep their place.

I doubt that a crowd of zero would convince them that they've got a problem.

It won't be the top 3. Why people still believe things this person says is beyond me. But you are 100% right. 2 weeks out is 2 weeks too long. We can't afford RR esp when we will get smashed tomo.

Well you can't accuse the owners/promoters of dragging their feet or being afraid to wield the big axe!

Just when it was safe to forget what an absolute mess-up GB made of the tactics. You have reopened the can of worms. No change in my opinion. I imagine that Painter et al will have additional media puppets on board and Roscoe kitted out in a waistcoat next time to solve all the problems. Rather than just getting someone with a brain to understand the tactics required to pull off a win that was eminently possible.

Sorry for late reply to this thread, but it was hidden away under a section I don't often look at. I don't think raising funding is the issue anymore as the only way to take the sport forward is to start from ground zero. This essentially means an amateur/semi pro sport which is run by promoters who want to rebuild speedway as a sport with 'grit' which every working person in this country can afford to be part of. I believe speedway needs an entrepreneurial type of leader to take this challenge forward, one with a track record in sport and business would certainly be helpful. Whilst truly flattered at the suggestion I am the person for this, I am restricted within my employment terms as Chief Executive of the British Assessment Bureau to take on ANY additional roles of responsibility (professional or non professional) without board approval. However, I would and could, happily offer my services as an unofficial advisor to a person or group who wished to take this challenge on. Hope that helps.

The main league ? Strange as it may seem , we only give token attention to the so called main league . We have our own version and are quite happy with our lot . Our teams are trying to build the best possible sides that budgets will permit and we all have weekend slots in which to follow our sides home and away . We dont view our riders as doubling up , theyre just guesting in some other league as a way to earn extra cash . It only affects us when one of our boys , sadly Lewis Kerr , gets injured whilst moonlighting . As for moving up , get real , we're all weekend tracks , why would we want to race on a Monday and Wednesday , look at poor Rye House .

I always like to celebrate a 69

Covatti missing for the Rebels is a big miss considering the form he has been in since signing for us. Whilst our team has changed slightly, and Swindon are missing both Bellego and Zak Waj from the previous meeting, we got slaughtered there earlier in the year. Remarkably Swindon are the only team in the league with a 100% winning record at home too. Swindon 48 Somerset 42 I'll go for.

What I posted on Philip Rising's thread "NO WORD FROM THE BSPA" thread _________________________ Speedway needs someone with a bit of cash, offer a breakaway series with an independent governing body, all with the FIM/ACU approval and the SCB/BSPA can do f-all about it. The FIM/ACU must surely be able to see the the SCB/BSPA is one and the same and not fit for purpose and be disbanded.  The ACU and FIM should really now get involved in the shambles that is British Speedway. A man with knowledge of the sport and is nowindependant of all clubs is Jonathan Chapman. Jonathan, the sport needs you and with a number of new promotions out there already not getting a vote at the BSPA would surely get your backing. Glasgow, Belle Vue, Rye House, Redcar, Sheffield and Leicester have shrewd, forward thinking people behind them. If you, Jonathan Chapman really do have some ideas that can bring the sport and their businesses into the 21st Century and give the punters something to support, now's the time to undercut the SCB/BSPA before the time is to late for all of us

The situation with averages is not hard to understand. At the start of the season – If a rider rode in last year’s Prem and Champ then their average carried over to each league separately for 2018. Once the season starts if they are in both Prem and Champ then they develop separate Rolling Averages in each League. If they ride initially in only one or the other, then their average should they choose to take up a position in the league they have not started in, is their converted average (factor 1.3) from the league they are already riding in. The rationale would be that it is an attempt to reflect current form rather than last season’s form. Things might not be spelt out clearly in the rulebook but that is no excuse for promoters, because they can always telephone the BSPA office and ask. There really isn’t a right or wrong in these average situations, but there has to be a rule. You might think Clegg is fortunate to get a 3-point average when he was previously higher. But the flip side of that is Sam Masters who would get 10.5 if he returned to the Championship, but was only 8.57 in that league last year. He would very likely have been back in the Edinburgh team before now had the rule been different.

Nicholls for Bjerre - yepp Auty for Pieszczek - not sure at this stage but Auty is riding well this season Robson for Kurtz - yepp ( based on his last BP showing ) Mountain for Sarjeant - not sure but does have BP experience and should mean we go through less sets of tapes.... Cheers - onwards and upwards !

What’s happened to Matt Ford Fan? Last time I asked a similar question SCB had been sent to prison.

Instead of 60-30 it will be 55-35 !!!

This surely should never been allowed to happen? Does this mean Hancock can sign for Berwick? And Pedersen for Newcastle? Craig cook has found his level, can't cut it in poland or the gps, I think he's accepting this by agreeing to this move.