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Showing content with the highest reputation on 06/10/2018 in all areas

  1. I have always been a great admirer of Tai's on-track exploits and there is no doubt there is a strong case to say he is Britain's best-ever. Certainly in the top 4. And the way he rode during the SON certainly emphasises that and furthers his cause in that respect no end. So, like a lot of posters on here who have commented on the final race, I have no dislike of Tai nor any need to "attack" him. And I find it speaks volumes for the paucity of the argument of others when they have to resort to that line of reasoning when trying to answer the criticism that he should have done more to help Lambert in the final. It would be much better to give some sort of reasoned argument why they feel his tactics in the last race were correct rather than attacking everyone as "Tai haters". To his credit, Philip has tried to do just that without ad hominem attacks, but, in my opinion, has failed miserably to make out any case at all why Tai should have just gone for the win and forget his partner. Yes, we know the chances of his shepherding Rob through past the world class Sayfutdinov were close to zero, but there was no alternative, given the rules. What difference did it make to the overall position that Tai storms off to win? There was only one chance of victory last night and that was for Rob not to come last. Other than last himself, it was irrelevant where Tai finished up. He could have stormed off and won in a new track record for all the difference it made. The only tactic he had was to hang back and try and help, however difficult that was. Can someone please give a good reason why they think Tai was right to do what he did without dismissing people who disagree as "Tai haters"?
    12 points
  2. I WILL try one last time ... I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him no matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong.
    7 points
  3. It's been a very, very tough week for the Tai haters. They've been waiting and waiting and waiting.. just hoping for something to take a pop at Tai about. Two of the main culprits being Adonis and Orion. Sadly for them no opportunity came as Tai was absolutely magnificent, putting in one of the finest performances there has EVER been seen in the history of the sport. We constantly heard how Emil was taking the harder gates and having to do the 'hard work' for the Russia pairing.. well the majority of the time Tai was too and made it look easy. From the gate, from the back, team riding, it was a clinic of speedway excellence. Those doubters and haters about the stance he had taken to improve the fortunes of GB had been silenced. The changes he wanted were in place, the team was professional, they meant business and boy did it show. Then came the final.. and suddenly they saw their chance, the hatred, venom and to be honest in some cases downright xenophobia resurfaced again. I'm not referring to those of us who think the tactics were wrong in the final (more on that in a moment) simply those whose ONLY comments throughout the entire event were to attack Tai. As for the final, I am as bigger Tai fan as you will ever find and have defended him countless times. That said, the tactics were wrong in the final, whether from Tai himself or from Rossiter. There isn't an argument, not even a semblance of an argument otherwise. We also need to take a step back with some of the hype regarding Lambert and where he is right now. Yes, he rode his heart out in this event but the reality is Tai scored 35pts on his own.. Lambert scored 11 from 11 rides, some of those pts coming due to assistance. He still has a long way to go so those saying he is ready to mix it at the top level need to curb their enthusiasm just a little. A major step forward yes, but still a long, long way to go. I hope he can come away from this with the positives, not dwell on the final and continue to build on the impressive form he has shown this season. Another couple of years and if he continues this progress then he will really be amongst the top echelon, Tai will still be at his peak (barring injury) and GB will have an outstanding future.. especially if Bewley can continue his development. Of course, throw in the fact that behind the scenes they will have a professional set up giving them everything they need to help them succeed. Yet despite this bright future, this future that has ONLY come about due to the stance Tai took, we still have the jealous, whinging haters moaning. To them I simply say, enjoy your whinging, there will be less and less of you over the next few years, the rest of us will be enjoying seeing the rise of a golden era for GB speedway led by the greatest rider we have ever had and a crop of youngsters who unlike some in the past will have everything in place to help them realise their true potential.. and who knows, one of them might just surpass Tai one day.
    7 points
  4. Being passed by Emil was irrelevant - it would've meant 2nd place just the same as his heat win Attempting the team ride even if it had a 1 in 100 chance of coming off was a 1 in 100 greater chance than taking the heat win provided of lifting the title
    6 points
  5. I think you're misreading the mood here, virtually every poster has said how fantastic he has been all week, and he has, he's gone up a few notches in my estimation for his selfless riding all week. He's been an absolute pleasure to watch, always looking for Lambert and only leaving him when at risk of losing the win, Rob Lambert must have learned so much from him this week, amazing throttle control. That said, there are plenty of us who, having watched him shepherd Lambert all week, are left wondering why he opted to go after Laguta in the final when the only real chance of taking the title was to get Lambert ahead of Emil, after all he'd been doing that all week where possible. One or 2 have called him selfish but the vast majority have had nothing but praise for him, it's only natural to wonder why he didn't consider mixing it with Emil. Of course it's easy for us armchair experts to say he should have done it, doesn't mean we aren't proud of his efforts.
    6 points
  6. Bit difficult to team ride when you are second and fourth then first and fourth, both Woffinden and Lambert rode out of their skin and deserve huge credit.
    6 points
  7. See Bewley has the Poles in raptures with his debut. Considering the opposition is so weak its no suprise but the Poles never saw it coming. Well done to him on a debut to remember.
    5 points
  8. I remember going to Gothenburg in 1977 just days after Collins shattered his leg hitting a grid cover at Hyde road, it was a very wet meeting and Collins shouldn't have been riding but gave it a go having to be lifted on and off his bike, he actually finished second in that world final and would have actually won it but I remember Egon Muller coming off when PC was in front but due to his injury he couldn't replicate it in the rerun, I strongly believe only for that leg injury he would have equalled Ivans three in a row, PC was that dominant at the time, throw in his maximums in the consecutive WTC finals, world pairs titles and the host of other titles allied to his outstanding ability on the bike of which ive not seen since and no Tai doesn't eclipse PC. Titles won don't tell the whole stories of a riders career, and if that had been PC in his prime last night his team riding skills would have seen Rob through or if not it would have been nip and tuck. I think the sands of time have eroded the memory of how good PC was, another example, at Hyde Road his handle bars broke in half, he won the race holding the forks with one hand and the throttle with the other, don't think we would see that today
    5 points
  9. Guess it may be a generational thing,and us older fans can remember riders helping their team mates in such positions.More frustrating even when Tai had made great efforts in previous heats.It can be done,it has been done and it was really the best if not only sensible option. Just riding off on front was maybe Tai’s way of showing his rivals he is the best at the moment?Even the night after,I still find the decision strange in a team event with the rule as it stood
    5 points
  10. Interesting to read all the comments but for those who think Tai Wiffindrn was making it all about him, I think you’re doing him a huge disservice. He decided not race for the team as it was being run poorly, with no direction and seemingly no future. He made his feelings clear in what was needed to make the team successful and when it wasn’t forthcoming he stood by his beliefs and stepped down. To his credit, however, he stayed with it and worked to get put in place what he felt was required and eventually this was achieved so he returned to the fold. Look at the difference, it’s plain to see. Investment in the future, training, conditioning, diet, togetherness and other things too. The first step was that silver medal tonight. Never mind what has been done behind the scenes, he has also contributed massively on track. Team GB wouldn’t have got through the race off without Woffenden, much less topped the scores and managed a silver medal. What he has done for the national team is immense this week, an inspiration. And he was as gutted as anyone with silver and not gold. His attempts at team riding with Robert were laudable and heartening to see - the only real example of the art all week. In that final, they were up against a very, very strong pair who both scored well all night. Team riding is very difficult to master, add in a wide fast track with different racing lines and the opponent being a big hearted, ballsy, brave, savvy racer like Emil and I’m not sure “slowing him down” would have been that easy. Easy to criticise on a keyboard, a little different on track. Give the guy some credit, he performed miracles for his country tonight and all week, but some of you can’t bring yourselves to praise him without a dig. I don’t agree with the fact that he doesn’t race in the UK, nor was I impressed when he stood down from Team GB, however, what he has done on and off track suggests to me he wants the best for the team and if he felt there was a way to have won that final, my guess is he would have tried it. Some of you know different, of course.
    5 points
  11. I'm sure a conversation was had between Tai and Robert before the final about what to do if one of them was last during the race. They did enough team riding throughout the tournament to be given the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately some posters see things either in black and white with no grey at all, and others will dislike Tai whatever he does forevermore. He has been absolutely immense this week and deserves enormous credit, as do the whole team The best thing about tonight was seeing our lad's disappointment on the podium.....far better that than being pleased to be there and happy with second. The future is very, very bright. The arguments about the format and the need for a false climax are for another day.
    5 points
  12. I'm also woman enough to hold my hands up and see him in a totally different light. Out of all the riders over the last two days, who out f them bust their guts more that Woffinden? Who out of them looked after a team mate more? He has been exemplary in attitude, riding and publicly. IMO he did absolutely nothing wrong in that final. We didn't get a gold medal and for some reason it's all down to him. Do me a favour FFS!
    5 points
  13. Are you being stubborn to avoid admitting your statements of last night were wrong, it's ok to reflect and admit you may have got it wrong Philip. Why can't you get this? Yes Robert passing Emil was always going to be a tall order, but if Tai was in front of Emil placing his bike in awkward positions for Emil then it gave Robert a tiny additional chance to get through. He wasn't that far off as it was anyway, so throw Tai into the mix and who knows.
    4 points
  14. The thing is,it didn’t matter in previous heats,did it?If Tai got a 3-3 by winning the heat,it was the same as letting the leader go and helping Robert finish 3rd.Only harder work 4 third places and another one would have given us the title.It was worth a try at least seeing as Robert had done it 4 times already!!!
    4 points
  15. One of the poorest posts on this debate.Do you really think Tai had that in mind?
    4 points
  16. Race-off races should be banned from every speedway meeting except when two teams or riders are tied.
    4 points
  17. On reflection, the Speedway of Nations has been a mixed week. The meeting at Teterow was entirely forgettable. In contrast, the meeting at Belle Vue got better as the meeting progressed. A personal highlight was Heat Nineteen, in which Tero Aarnio was able to show his backwheel to both Jason Doyle and Max Fricke. I never expected that sponsoring a rider could be so enjoyable! A lot of criticism has been made of the decision by the likes of Finland, the United States etc..to not field an under 21 rider, which I feel is a little harsh, when the rules did not make it mandatory and more importantly the organisers were not prepared to pay any travel expenses, as well as poor prize money to any riders wishing to compete. For instance, any Finnish Under 21 rider would have ended up considerably out of pocket sitting in the pits waiting for a ride in the unlikely event that either Tero Aarnio or Timo Lahti were injured. Unlike others, I wasn't necessarily so surprised or so impressed by Robert Lambert's performance over the course of the week. Good race wins at Belle Vue over the 'weaker' nations interspersed with the odd point against the stronger nations. Once GB reached the final, we were over-reliant on Tai Woffinden's efforts. It has been a long time since I have seen any rider give such a dominant performance on the world stage. To effectively score 38/39 points over the course of two days was a stunning effort. The two day format for the final may have allowed the organisers to meet televisual requirements for four events over the course of a week, but it didn't lend itself well to the event. Effectively we ended up with forty two qualifying heats to eliminate four nations. The final two heats were nothing more than a lottery. Poland scraped into the elimination heat finishing nine and ten points respectively behind Russia and GB, but could have gone on to win the meeting with two second-third places. As it was the Russians got through to the final and won the championship after scoring one less point than GB in qualifying. There is far too little gained for obtaining the most points over the course of the first forty two heats. The only gain is the need to avoid one elimination race. Once the final is reached, both pairs start afresh. The final itself showed the flaw in the system; the team that won the final race and obtained the most points over the course of two days finished second. This may the rules in 'speedway' as Nigel Pearson explained to the viewing audience, but it isn't credible when trying to win over a wider audience for the sport. The speedway public voted with their feet. The attendances for each event were poor, which in itself was revealing of how the speedway viewing public viewed the competition.
    4 points
  18. Young Dan was very impressive today maybe the other team was not the strongest but the style of his riding and ease of passing other riders was noteworthy he will get another start there for sure.
    3 points
  19. 3 points
  20. I completely agree. Tai and Robert did a magnificent job, and both should be be getting our congratulations. Regardless of my heartache for GB the rules are pathetic. I was left trying to explain to newcomers to the sport who thoroughly enjoyed the tremendous racing how a team who gets the most points, then in a so called final where our rider comes from the back to WIN the race doesn't win overall because second and third is deemed better...Nonsense.
    3 points
  21. Laguta never slowed to let Tai past, I'm sure, but, as soon as Tai goes past him you can see that he immediately looked round to see where Emil was.
    3 points
  22. There are some people on here who will never be pleased. All this talk of Woffy dropping back to help Lambert is so bias and contradicts the tremendous achievement they made. . Only Woffy can answer for the way he rode, and the choices he choose. but to me he was immense, and rode his heart out for the cause. The rules stank, the point scoring was rubbish, Blame them if you like , but for a team who outscored everyone else, a team that did the most team riding of the lot, the team that won the final have nothing to be questioned about. Both Woffy and Lambert were brilliant, to me they were the right full winners.. It was the organiser who got it wrong. Team riding was never rewarded during the meeting, yet in the final coming second was deemed the winner..... PS,,, Hope you haven't forgotten the 3 man semi final fiasco .
    3 points
  23. Quote from Laguta after the meeting - “It showed we needed to work harder and we did it in the final qualifier. In the Grand Final, we knew second and third would give us gold, so we planned to let Tai go and try to hold those places.” Maybe Laguta did slow up a bit to allow Tai to pass and Lambert didn't really try the outside pass, so Emil kept him stuck round the line.
    3 points
  24. THE simple fact is that Lambert had to beat Sayfutdinov in the final heat of effectively a World Final. In a couple of years maybe but after four third places in six rides it was unlikely and unrealistic unless he got ahead with Tai, which he didn't. No criticism of Lambert.
    3 points
  25. No doubting his talent on a speedway bike,but Woffy only does what suits Woffy,everybody should know that by now.
    3 points
  26. Regardless of the entertainment on offer and, as other posters have said, the most telling conclusion of this event has been that - no one was in Germany, no one was in Manchester and no one was in Poland. I can't remember any recent World Cups, including race offs, in recent times having such poor attendances which can only bring us to the conclusion that this event failed to capture the imagination of the speedway public. Worryingly, the much heralded return of TW to the British fold, did not result in Belle Vue being being packed out as might have been expected. It seems that even an English double world champion has little or no box office clout in his own country. Worrying times for speedway.
    3 points
  27. I think Robert and his family would be (and have been) the first to admit that he isn't ready for GP speedway yet. There is no doubt he will be in the near future but he has more experience to gain before then and riding in meetings like this can only benefit him. He 'only' contributed eleven points across the final but looking at the field before the first meeting in Wroclaw it was difficult to see where he was going to pick up many points considering the quality and experience of the other competitors. I think when we look at who he beat during the competition rather than who he didn't it makes us realise how well he performed and how far he has come since the end of last season. And he has only been in his twenties for a few weeks. The British Championship and World U21 both have to be his aims this year, he is capable of winning both with a bit of luck. Certainly using Tai as his role model can only benefit him, I'm sure he has learned a hell of a lot from him this week.
    3 points
  28. Regardless of the result, that was proper speedway!! Tai in a different league and Robert just lacking that bit experience. A silver medal in that field is a fantastic achievment.
    3 points
  29. After this event I am left wondering how Manchester City were able to win the 38 game league season by so many points and not have to face either Manchester United or Tottenham Hotspur in a winner takes all final at Wembley? Oh hang, Football still has some credibility about it when it comes to winning a marathon event.
    3 points
  30. Woffy could not have given more to his country and his sport. I salute him and his efforts at team riding with his "right up there" partner Robert Lambert, the best young rider on show by a long way. Craig Cook proved what a True Brit and a Team Man he is with his comments on the podium,
    3 points
  31. I was always aware when Woffy is in our team we are in with a shout, but never did I imagine that Cook nor Lambert would get enough points to compete with the likes of Russia, Poland, and the rest of the elite in Europe, so you can imagine how chuffed I feel with the result of the SON. Woffy was immense, as a rider he towered above everybody else on show. Such was his ability he oozed class in every department. Over the years I have moaned at Roberts laid-back approach more than most, but this year we have at last seen the real potential. He has stepped up to the big time and on the biggest stage of them all he really came of age. His gating was phenomenal, He competed with the best and come away with so much credit. No we may not have won the SON but we came away with our heads held high, and the whole world will be aware now, we are not just there to make the numbers up. WELL DONE TO TEAM GB..... so proud of their effort... we were that close......
    3 points
  32. That is an absolutely shocking comment. There's no place for that.
    3 points
  33. Of course he got his tactics wong. Do you think by shooting off in front for the win he could somehow have won the title for GB? If you think that, you've got it badly wrong too. The only way we could win the title was if he and Lambert could combine to block Emil and get Lambert into 3rd. The winner of the race is irrelevant, the only thing that counts is that the team with the 4th placed rider are the losers. Surely you can see that? No one is criticising Woffinden. He's been the rider of the tournament. His point scoring has been phenomenal all week. HIs team riding has been beyond compare all week. Without him we'd have got nowhere near a silver medal. We're very happy with a silver medal. It's just a fact that he got the tactics wrong in the final race. Slowing down to help Lambert might not have worked, and we may have still ended up with a silver medal.... but it might have worked, and was definitely the thing to try. Anyone who says we shouldn't have tried the only option we had left, is a bit daft.
    3 points
  34. WHY? Aren't riders supposed to win a race rather than avoiding last. Nothing wrong with the scoring over the weekend bar the last two races.
    2 points
  35. Those of us who have witnessed speedway from that era to the present day are better able to make a judgement. Peter Craven raced in an era when there was the big 5, Craven, Fundin, Moore, Briggs and Knutsson, who were all capable of winning the World Title and did so. Peter was unfortunately killed when only 29 and I have no doubt would have added to his achievements had he lived longer. Tai is without doubt an outstanding rider as he proved again this weekend. Where he will eventually stand in the overall ratings has yet to be seen but at the moment the quality of opposition at the highest level is not where it was in the the Craven or Collins eras or indeed, in the days of Rickardsson and Crump. At the moment I rate both PC's more highly but that could change.
    2 points
  36. We really don’t have anything to lose in replacing Bacon as harsh it sounds. Shame Redcar signed Greaves as would have been a good fit
    2 points
  37. I think we should be allowed to race ALL our fixtures at Home.
    2 points
  38. The boy certainly is talented.For his first meeting in Poland no matter how poor the opposition is to get a max is brilliant.Can see him furthering his career even more next season when he signs for Lynn
    2 points
  39. How can a opinion be wrong !,
    2 points
  40. Most impressed with Michael Jepsen Jensen ... some quality manoeuvres in his races Tai was absolutely magnificent on the track with some quality team riding with Robert Robert has shown his capabilities on the world stage and it augurs well for his and GB's future. My mother who is 93 and watched speedway up until the late seventies simply said " it's not fair we scored more points and came second !!!"
    2 points
  41. From the attendance I think its clear what the Poles thought of it.
    2 points
  42. At least the Poles didnt win. I dont mean that because it was the Poles but only due to the position they were in A pair a full 10 points behind in the qualifiers still having a chance to win with two 3-3 drawn heats is just plain wrong!
    2 points
  43. Yeah, what happens if Ludde decide's that he wants to do Poland at weekends ???
    2 points
  44. Pleased to see Worrall back, fit and involved but how is it fair that he has jumped ahead of others who competed in the semis? He has effectively been seeded through when others have been denied the same in the past.
    2 points
  45. You do realise that GB scored more points than Russia, right? That's not a complaint. I just felt it was an indication of which team did better in the qualifying heats. Bonus points are only relevant if it is a tie. It wasn't a tie. One thing that was interesting in the final, watching it again. At the exact moment Tai is coming round Laguta, Laguta looks behind to see where Emil is, and makes a half hearted effort to slow down a bit. But he hadn't looked before then. Both teams went for the heat win in the final rather than go for second and third. Personally I was hoping for a more tactical race, which would have been fascinating to watch, but we were always up against it considering Russia's second day form. This, perhaps, is another flaw. GB were the form team on day one and Russia on day two. The form team on day two has a better chance of wining, therefore, even if they don't win the heats over all. In the end, it was a good competition. I enjoyed it. But they must have been disappointed with the crowd, which would have filled the stadium were it a World Cup final. Tai and Robert both came out of it with a lot of credit. Tai looks like he could be a 3 time World Champion, and Robert Lamberts looks ready to step up to the big time. His race with Janowski proved it, and he was so close to passing Emil in the final. I just wish we'd seen a more tactical last race. Whether that was down to the manager or the riders, I guess we'll never know.
    2 points
  46. Russia deserved to win, best team over the 4 days of racing. Enjoy SON overall, would welcome its annual existance alongside the SWC. It does need tweaking. With GB a point up on Russia, Russia should have required a 4-2 to win. Regardless of how many ponits behind, a 5-1 wins a team the semi or final.
    2 points
  47. Really? Yawn. Another Tai hater. Without him, we wouldn’t have even got past the race off.
    2 points
  48. We had at least a silver with a chance of gold.Now going off on your own does very little to help the chance of gold....that was mentioned a number of times before today’s meeting even started.I just wonder why on earth he chose that path rather than helping our chances,even if only slightly.Surely that was the best choice?
    2 points
  49. Race card for SON final 2 :- https://www.keepandshare.com/doc16/21033/son-final-2-xlsx-36k?da=y
    2 points
  50. looks like you had an enjoyable away meeting up north ! well done for having the time and effort to support an away fixture . you have to be one of few who travel to away meetings now . hope you enjoyed it .
    2 points
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