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IF it is Lakeside that owe the money, they should be forced to clear their debts before they are allowed to run in 2018. Its disgusting ...

You surely have to be closely related to Horton to spout the continual bile and lies on here in support of Horton. The only fact on here is the vast majority of Bees supporters do not rightly so trust Horton and will not be giving him any of their money. Whatever the consequences then so be it but he is the kind of person Brandon Estates need to drag us to oblivion and they will succeed. Jeff and David have always shown passion and integrity to save Coventry stadium and the Bees, all of this is alien to Horton. However you just keep showing your support for that perpetual liar and loser.

It would only have to happen once.....that would sort it for the future

If "real" supporters are using the tickets, how do you explain the increase in gate numbers?

I agree about the presentation. Easy improvements are to speed up the meetings with no overlong delays between races, apart from the unavoidable delays after some crashes, music that appeals to a younger audience and making fans feel appreciated. We also need to look more at what appeals to youngsters. We need apps that not only provides them with a constant flow of up to date information but that are interactive. How about an app that allows users to predict results of matches and races and then marks their predictions against the actual results using emoji's and amusing comments. It could also be used as a race card with instant updates after each race.

I have no objection to clubs using free tickets to try to get people interested in the sport providing they are not finding their way to regular supporters or the same people week after week. I want speedway and individual clubs to survive and done properly it is one way of promoting the sport. In the end we all benefit if clubs can attract bigger crowds. The club becomes financially secure and bigger crowds produce a better atmosphere, which makes meetings more enjoyable.

Totally agree. Back in the 70's you got paid by cheque at your next home meeting for the previous weeks meeting, and any away meetings that had paid the home promoter. If you did an away tour of say 3 tracks you didn't get paid for any of the meetings until all 3 away promoters had paid your home promoter, which could be 3 to 4 weeks wait. I was paid by cheque at a home meeting two thirds way through the season, paid cheque into bank on Monday, returned by bank on Thursday " Refer to Drawer ". Next home meeting took bounced cheque to home speedway office and was offered another cheque, this I refused and told promoter I wanted paying the bounced cheque, and the cheque they were going to give me for the previous week, before the meeting in cash or I didn't ride. Promoter said he didn't have enough cash, to which I reminded him that the gates opened to the paying public at 6.00pm. I also said I wanted paying after each home meeting for the rest of the season in cash for that nights work and any away meetings that had come in that week, as it was my living as well as his! If I didn't ride he could explain to the public why I wasn't riding, or if he wouldn't I would. Payment in cash arrived just before rider introductions in front of the grandstand and I was there ready to race. The payments after the meeting continued for the remainder of the season, problem solved.

Absolute farce that riders get banned for refusing to ride if their not being paid. I would never ever stand for it, recently left my job and got a new one due to none of the lads on site being paid. Should be paid every week without fail and if its a week late, employer should add a percentage on as compensation for your late wage. Something that needs a huge look at

The campaign group has no allegiance to anyone, and any evidence of “all the trouble the group has caused” would be welcomed. If I in any way felt that what was being done was not being done in a professional or respectful way I wouldn’t be putting my name to it as one of those involved - especially as I am quite openly involved in various ways across the sport. You’re welcome to come to a campaign group meeting, you might learn something - but I guess then we might also learn your identity, which presumably you don’t want to happen.

It's not just the Holder / Batchelor thing, but how fans were treated after. No, the past can't be changed but the club needs to work it's ass off to keep the fans coming in for the future.

Your prerogative but this defeats the purpose in enticing new fans and indeed fans who stopped going for whatever reason. I know of no long term fans who abused this last season as we all recognise the bigger picture in what is trying to be achieved , but to say why should I pay because someone new is getting in for nothing is slightly narrow minded in what we are trying to achieve.

Adonis sounds like the exiled Speedibee with his obsession with Sandhu? Yet he call's me sad It would be hilarious if Mr Geary has indeed popped back up with the forum name Adonis, cos Adonis he ain't

I feel all warm inside... Trump and that North Korean bloke meeting up for a few bevvies, and now BWitcher and Steve Roberts on here agree with each other. If you would have told me this last week I'd have laughed.. laughed I tell ya.

I think Kim, having now put the issue in the open, needs to expand upon just who owes him money, how much and what for? The whole thing does not sound 'very Lakeside' to me and, perhaps, their promotion should issue a statement to address the concerns expressed. Five of this year's seven riders have ridden for the club before, surely if there were payment issues they would not have re-signed.

I agree with much of what you say however you did use the term "Too much like the seventies" which was somewhat different to the gradual decline of the sport during the eighties (which is the era you cite some specific examples) which has continued to this day. During the height of the seventies the sport was in a relatively healthy state (certainly compared to today) where the national press (Mirror, People, Express) sponsored, as well as covered, not only meetings but test matches and/or tournaments and there was generally an abundance of national sponsorships which, again, backed leagues (Gulf Oil for example) specific meetings/test matches/tournaments and obviously riders. The sport was featured regularly on national/local TV (World of Sport in particular...the end of that franchise during the middle eighties certainly had an effect on the sport) and even the BBC showed highlighted meetings occasionally so the sport must have been deemed attractive and/or doing something right to warrant such coverage. Plus the fact that the national team drew plaudits and created interest which the advent of the old British League Division Two helped to fuel before an abundance of foreigners and other factors changed things in subsequent decades. Okay those who were around during the seventies saw the advent of the four valve engine and the gradual parting of the ways of the two leagues which the effects of both became apparent as the sport moved into the eighties and beyond. Yes there were issues during the seventies as there was during the sixties and fifties (when the sport was struggling towards the back end of that particular decade) but personally I feel that the seventies offered much and I'm thankful that I was able to experience both the highs and lows of that particular decade. Whether the actual quality of the racing was any better is always going to cause debate. My dad went during the late forties and early fifties and always said that the racing was better then but the subject is always subjective and often based on personal preferences and bias and fans will always cite that the racing was better during any particular period in which they attended. As regards attracting younger fans? That's the biggest challenge that faces the sport and I have no answers to that particular question although I have some rather contentious views on the subject which I'll keep to myself! As regards the sport having to "re-invent" itself is open to debate and conjecture as fundamentally it's about four riders (with slight variations on occasions) circumnavigating an oval track and how far should the sport deviate from that in an attempt to attract a new audience will always divide opinion.Tweaking rules here and there is not the answer in my view but beyond that what are the possibilities?

You can add Newcastle to that list as well. He helped others like local lad Mike Watkin, and a lot of the riders we signed had the same nationality or were friends of Ivan. Still very fond of Newcastle and every time he came into the country he made a beeline to visit our track, and just used to appear without being announced, have a chat with the Kiwis and disappear before the end of the meeting, and go and see a local family that he was associated with from his time with us. Having a Geordie mechanic, Gordon Stobbs, I asked him if he could get Ivan to come along to my training school on the Sunday afternoon. He had about 4 other events to go to, but sure enough halfway through our session in walked Ivan, and he proceeded to give a lesson in riding and how to train a rider. Never forgot his roots and the young riders, including Liam Carr, will always remember being tutored by Ivan. Pictures of Ivan and the young riders are on the Newcastle Training group Facebook account.

Well said Dave. Keep up the good work, you`re doing a great job.

Chris Holder will do just fine when he returns to Saddlebow. provided. 1 It’s Dry 2 The track conditions are to his high standards. 3. He is in the mood to be assed to race, 4. No one upsets him or says anything nasty to him... Bless 5. It’s not close to a Grand Prix. Will Holder get back to anything like he was in his pomp or is he a spent force who is on a downward spiral.? Time will tell

No, but I did early 80's so pretty close. However, it's not particularly relevant. Here is my view, to explain it in more details. A race will always seem better the bigger the crowd and the better the atmosphere. A good race becomes a brilliant race. An average race becomes a good race and so on. The same principle by definition applies to the meeting as a whole. The perfect example of this is the 81 Wembley Final at which the racing was overall average. Yes a couple of great heats but many poor one. BUT.. the atmosphere was fantastic and as such it's remembered (rightly so) as one of the best meetings to have been at ever. Had the very same meeting taken place in front of 1000 people it would get called a poor meeting in reality. So, in the 70's and into the early 80's there were good crowds packing stadiums across the country. The atmosphere was great, local derbies and rivalries were aplenty. Even poor meetings seemed good because of the crowd. Then came a series of events.. Penhalls retirement, the death of Sanders/Carter, the troubles of Lee.. and most importantly the race fixing scandals which killed off a lot of press coverage and caused a lot of fans to walk away. As the decade went on, the age demographic of the sport continued to rise. As with ALL sports as fans grow older they can lose interest, stop attending as regularly (even in football I know of many who were season ticket holders not so long ago but now as they get older have stopped attending). Of course sadly fans also pass away. The sport failed for the most part to attract a younger fan base. The image of it began to be one of mostly 'older' people and it became less trendy for youngsters. Throw in the loss of a number of popular tracks and their support base (not to mention the rivalries they had) and the problems became worse. As we continued into the 90's and then the 21st century most sports realised they were fighting new battles against other attractions. Many re-invented themselves to an extent.. whereas speedway just carried on with the same old, same old. However now, as the crowds began to fall.. good meetings seemed like average meetings, average meetings became poor meetings. The age of fans continued to rise, the number of youngsters attending continued to fall. Then throw in the weakening of the top league season on season to drive yet more fans away. The 'dodgy' (being polite) way the sport has been run with regards to the implement of certain rules.. all contributed to driving ever more fans away.. which again adds to the cycle. Now what were previously good meetings to have attended become poor and so on. Speedway is still a fantastic sport, it just doesn't feel like it often enough anymore.

Henryk ZYTO, one of the legendary Polish speedway riders of late 50's and early 60's died last Wednesday at the age of 81 in Gdansk. He was one of the first Polish riders competing for the British club (Coventry Bees in 1960). A year later together with his team mates he won for Poland first gold medal in World Team Championships. His funeral will take place this Saturday 10.03.2018 in Gdansk. (...)Henryk won the hearts of the British fans during his first performance for Coventry on Friday 8th April, 1960, against Leicester at Blackbird Road. Fans were fascinated by his riding style but cheered the most when after a fall two hundred yards from the finish line he pushed his bike till the end for one point. Henryk was a conscientious young man who took speedway very seriously. Maybe sometimes too seriously. Charles Ochiltree soon gave him encouragement. He told him through the interpreter, "Do not worry, I'm happy with you, the track is very slippery today.(...)

We all wish you would. For a long time.

At Belle Vue until the last few seasons it seemed to be mainly music I recognised, so 60's and 70's. Now it does seem more of a mixture with much I don't recognise. Whether that means they are playing current music or just music from the 90's onwards I wouldn't know. Last year they introduced a mascot, Chase The Ace and I must admit that my initial reaction was it was something I could well do without but he is brilliant. He keeps young and old amused between races with his dancing and mimes.

mmmmmm the only who can afford £18-50p a monachs match are the glasgow owners lol lol

Lots of talking, shame about the racing

i am no biting very nice lollol

Owing money is alleged to be commonplace in which case there could be several clubs 'not allowed to run' in 2018.

Disgusting not paying riders just shows how unprofessional the so called mickey mouse sport is

Once between heats 5 & 14 but not 8

mmmmmm very nice lollol. !!!!!!!!! Think that will be his reply.

Think if ALL clubs payed the Standard rate there would be a lot less problems in the sport.

Yes, there are many circumstances of Riders being owed money and these matters get resolved. As has been said you only need to have a run of rain offs and you can be in trouble . One year we had no meetings at home in a June, which meant no income, but we came to an agreement with the captain and the team, that the 4 away meetings would be paid progressively through the following months. It was all a matter of trust that worked for us. One year a rider was paid all his wages, but his crippling flights that year that we were responsible for, but the rider did not actually pay(already back in his country). It was agreed to pay him his flights at the end of the year and they were paid. He returned the next year as well. One other situation is when a sponsor undertakes to make payments, in addition to his clubs wages, and the sponsor doesn't pay up. It is a club debt but not really the responsibility of the actual club. When clubs that owe money go bust, the riders owed money are paid out of the bond held by the BSPA, but at a standard rate which is a lot less that their contract rate.

One of the worse outcomes of FREE tickets is when longstanding fans come through the gates clutching a free ticket and not wanting to understand the reason why the free tickets are used. The worst case I encountered was when fee tickets were given to a Boys Club football team and with duplications being made we suddenly found the invitation had been extended by them to the rest of the teams in the league. In addition someone stood outside the gates giving extra free to existing fans. That was in the late 1998/9's which resulted in about 700 kids running wild and a lot was learnt by us that night. As it happened it was one on the last meetings that year, so if any of the new fans wanted to return it would have had to being the following year, so it really had no benefit to us.

Sounds like head scratching is the current state of play. Can't see how we'd be allowed to start the season with guests but I suppose stranger things have happened. Perhaps if Kennett doesn't like the thought of the travel he could sign short term until say May by which point you'd expect who's actually getting rides in Poland to be clearer.

He did return to Britain with King's Lynn the following month (July) but that spell was ended by injury after just two matches. From memory, I think that was Peter's last stint in the UK.

Yeah, so Mondays would open the door to 'non-Poland' bound riders, but Mondays wouldn't be able to pay them,,, One door opens and, the next one slams you in the face

The problem Peter Nahlin had was, after not riding in the night in question, he was banned for 28 days by the BSPA for withholding his services. Which prevented him earning money for the rest of the season

To be fair to the Promoters, not really sure of what benefits there are to any individual club getting their name out there at a Speedway GP in Cardiff... The event by definition is attended by (in the main) Speedway fans only, who no doubt can name every club in the land and what nights they race on... Having any representation there by a club would simply be preaching to the converted.. The event itself is successful I would suggest due to many 'lapsed' Speedway fans attending and others like myself who miss plenty of domestic meetings due to their lack of credibility and use the money saved to enjoy a weekend at a 'proper' sporting event... The vast majority of fans who attend Cardiff know what is served up at their local tracks each week... Hence domestic Speedways attendances....

Eleven shows Nice League 1 meetings as well as Polsat. You also get British speedway, if a television contract is agreed that is.

I am sure it was the case at Belle Vue in the sixties (at least) that after the meeting the riders went to the office which was under and at the back of the grandstand and received there earnings. Its easy to calculate what someone has earned during a meeting, especially now with computers. Cash may not be the wisest now but money transfers are no problem.

It's been proved in the past few seasons when we have been forced to race on a Monday there's been a big reduction in the size of the crowd. So although Sunday racing stops us attracting riders who race in Poland it looks like something we just have to get on with. The promotion can't afford to loose even a small minority of the crowd. I'd imagine it's something they've thought about loads of time but just doesn't seem viable. An example was last season against Glasgow in the cup with the tie hanging in the balance failed to attract a decent crowd for a Monday.

Exactly. I personally think Nahlins stance is the correct one, if owed money for more than a week or two they should refuse to ride.

The SCS group have said continually that if you want to go to Leicester then go as they don't see it will have an effect on what they are trying to do. Jeff expressed an opinion that he thinks the team at Leicester isnt Coventry Bees as we are at NL level, he hasn't said to fans don't go. I do differ from his opinion on this, Coventry Bees shouldnt be at NL level but unfortunately we are, a league doesn't define what a club is. I say again the fight is to Brandon Estates now.

Ivan didn't want to leave Belle Vue having spent 4 seasons there. It was Belle Vue that let him go, albeit allowing it to be believed it was the rider control committee that were responsible so as not to alienate any fans. They did it because they correctly believed that they could build home grown and less expensive league winning teams without him. Ivan also spent 4 seasons at Hull and 6 at Exeter, so certainly cannot be accused of being a rider who regularly moved from one team to another after relatively short stays. I've no doubt that he would have had very attractive offers if he had let it be known at the end of a season that he was available. I think the evidence points to the fact that he was committed and passionate about his clubs by doing whatever he could to make them successful. He didn't have to do that. He could have done what the majority of top riders do and just ensured that he gave 100% to his riding and that would have been perfectly acceptable. However, he went way beyond that and so far as I know, for no additional financial benefit to himself. Tsunami's post gives further examples of his going above and beyond what he needed to do to help Newcastle and other riders.

not small sums of money. More clear evidence of clubs paying far more than they can afford. A non league or league 2 footballer playing in front of speedway size crowds wouldn't get such sums. Nor would they commute from another country to play Riders deserve every penny they get but if the money isn't there we should be going semi pro Also should the club who owe the money be allowed to come to the tapes in 2018 in ANY division? Are we too scared to lose a club that we turn a blind eye?

Speedway being speedway, I wouldn't trust promoters. They have the air of a used car salesman, rogue trader about them.

After listening to the Facebook chat, which is well worth a listen, I still can’t understand the disconnect between the current promotion and the campaign group.Horton says he wants to cooperate with them ,must be a reason they don’t want him on board. i don’t trust Sandhu either he has obviously contributed to this mess. going forward we just have to hope Rugby BC reject the application and the subsequent appeals which will no doubt follow and drag it out for several years.

There is no doubt that Stoke has its faults & that finances are a large factor of this but there are plenty of positives too like the track shape is good, it can produce good racing & the viewing is excellent. What often lets down visits there is the approach from the club. If they had the IOW style upbeat attitude along with a welcoming atmosphere you would find many are far more forgiving. Every year i hope to see Stoke succeed on the track but for them to succeed off track they need to accept the failings and look to address them one step at a time rather than deny they even exist.

God what a cheesy post i will just go and get the sick bag.!

This Speedway of Nations is a innovative and exciting competition that's never been seen before, and will stop Poland winning everything. Those who point out that the World Team Cup used to be run with a pairs + reserve format and with Semi-Finals, and that Team Ice Speedway has always been run over a couple days, are merely being churlish and not getting with the programme...

Which charities are benefiting?