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If I am truly honest, I do have trouble grasping why people stay in to watch speedway on television when they can actually go. I remain of the belief that people such as yourself who do that are the exception and that the number lost for that reason is absolutely minimal when compared with those who have stopped attending because of poor value for money, and that on balance there is no question that television coverage is beneficial for the sport. As I have said, when people are asked on here why they no longer go - and sometimes I think they outnumber us that continue to attend - its extremely rare that they will say that that is because they make use of a BT/SKY package instead. Delays, guests, gaps between meetings, cheating, crap tracks all come much higher. The other thing is it seems to me that you are a neutral and will therefore be more likely to stay in rather than attend. I am one too, but we constitute a very small proportion of the speedway paying public, with most watching their teams week in, week out. I would be very surprised if a Belle Vue fan, for example, would skip a home meeting simply to watch a Poole-Somerset match on the box. Its almost equally as unlikely that they would skip a Belle Vue meeting to stay at home for the same reason (which, currently, happens once a season). As I have made clear earlier, the biggest attendance I saw at the NSS last season was a televised match against Wolverhampton. Properly promoted and with a reduced entry fee, I suspect the gate was near double the average. The GP's are different because they represent the pinnacle of the sport with its very best riders. Most of them are beyond the pocket of the average speedway fan, so they are far more likely to use the very decent coverage that we have. There will be a loss to teams that run against them but I refuse to believe that Workington are losing 300 a week as a result - with their gates, it would be more than noticeable if 300 were there one week and not the next.

That is possibly because having seen a live meeting with all the delays etc they were put off, which is why a highlights prog would be a good option. If the bspa get rid of all the delays and pointless restarts more people might return to the sport.

During the '60s and '70s, the noise and the smell and (I'm afraid to say) the crashes were a great part of the appeal to many people. Closeness of racing and league success was less important than it is today as, win or lose the spectacle was enjoyable. Todays sanitised product, with the loss of the smell and much reduced noise level has greatly reduced this appeal and I believe is the reason for the disenchantment of many fans and the consequent diminishing gates. I believe the introduction of silent, electric bikes would be the last nail in the coffin for the sport, if indeed it lasts that long!

You are right in so much of what you say. We just come to different conclusions on the effect Speedway on TV may have on attendance. Yes I am a neutral in some respects because of where I live. An Aces supporter in London is not ideal. But that has been the case since 1984 so it's nothing new. In the last few of years i have attended around 10-15 UK meetings plus a couple of GP/SWC per annum and all have been a separate choice rather than ritual to a nearby hometrack. This is massively reduced from my high spot of the eighties and nineties when I averaged 80 plus meetings a year. The last time did over 50 a year must have been the early 2000s. Many things have influenced my choice to attend (of course) from the weather, to Aces fixtures, to team absences, to changes of race nights, track closures and even marital status. As it always did back in the day. But I'm afraid that having the luxury of some TV coverage always being available within the next few days has been the single biggest reason for making the choice to stay at home than anything else, when push comes to shove. Especially after i have a paid the monthly fee i feel 'justified' in making that choice to get my 'money's worth'. Sundays watching Polish league matches online actually quite a factor too now. There are only so many hours that one can devote to Speedway and with so much of that being 'used up' inside the home it is really just inevitable that would reduce the time devoted to live attendance. Isn't it? I have no idea how representative this is of others. And I know It says some sad things about me. But it is the truth.

You deserve a medal Dave for all the work you, and your Team put in.

Utter rubbish. The back straight is highly banked and supports the road which gives access to the pits at the other end of the stadium. The remaining area in the stand along the home straight, the home straight, and the second bend stands are more than adequate for even a decent crowd. All tracks can't be blessed with a showground to call on, and Redcar do very well with the land that they got for a speedway track. Incidentley CVS would probably had very little input while he employed Glyn Taylor to reconstruct a Motocross dump into a more than acceptable race track and viewing provisions. Stick to Peterborough.

This is a very interesting debate, and for once very civil! I have always thought that TV affects the crowds at speedway meetings. Its an interesting debate that is for sure, I think back to the days when I attended Cradley every week but because of that I also went to Birmingham and Wolves regularly ( and by that I mean probably 3 out of 4 meetings and indeed the vast majority of Cradley away matches.) Once Cradley closed I just lost all interest in domestic speedway, went to a few matches in the junior league, but it didnt mean anything to me, and I just drifted away. Watch everything I can now on TV, but would I get up from my armchair, probably not as I dont have a team to support or a base. Would I get up from my armchair if no domestic speedway was available, again probably not but I guess I may think about it more. So my thinking on TV has changed somewhat and perhaps the screening of domestic speedway doesnt affect the crowds of other tracks that much. I am though convinced that if I had the choice of say Workington on a Saturday night or watching the world elite in an SGP, the SGP would win everytime. No disrespect intended to Workington of course, I really used to enjoy my trips there! The televising of SGPs is obviously not in the control of UK promoters and it will now be an ever present problem, what is in the control is the televising of domestic speedway. I remember thinking at the launch of the SGP that my Saturday nights at Dudley Wood would change forever as they would be forced into alternate night racing, however other things happened and sadly that wasnt the issue at all with the troubles and eviction from Dudley Wood!

Track working party URGENT Anybody with some spare time on Sunday, can you come to Brough at 10.00am to help get the track and fence ready for the new season. There is lots still to do so if you can spare the time it would be most welcome. Hot drinks and biccies on as usual and wear warm clothing. Session goes on till about 2.00pm.

This might have been asked before - does anybody know of anyone still alive who attended that first meeting 90 years ago this weekend ?

................and the preparation. One of my favourite tracks is Plymouth (which I believe is the smallest in the country) and no-one could reasonably say that the racing is better at Berwick, for example. While over a season in my view their is no comparison between Belle Vue & Redcar, I have seen some brilliant racing at STMP. If you can do it once, you can do it again.

don't make a meal of it

Thanks for remembering. It was a very long time ago. That show came about after we'd set up the deal to show a prerecorded match once a week. I offered to contribute speedway news to the station's news department (mainly ex-Piccadilly Radio journos who at least knew of Belle Vue) to be read by one of the presenters as part of their new bulletins. I phoned in the first set to the programme controller, Chris Fear (ex-Westward TV and a speedway man) whose response was to invite me up to the studios the following Saturday to present the news myself, initially with him interviewing me then after a couple of weeks 'solo'. Resources were minimal - we couldn't even afford a shoestring. What we did have was the recording of the match to be shown the following night so we took a heat from that as a preview. The whole speedway project was initially run by K.M.Video on their own who recorded several matches for video each week, normally at places like Hackney, Wimbledon and Reading. At each meeting we would record interviews to insert into the weekly news review. We weren't allowed to show any action. So we would only be able to show the one race and the few video companies also making speedway tapes at the time simply weren't producing material technically good enough to broadcast. Indeed KM's equipment wasn't up to the job and after the first match at Hackney an outside firm, Video Anglia was brought in to provide better, vision-mixed cameras working from an admittedly tiny 'scanner' truck (a Renault Trafic where I did the commentary from the front passenger seat). I usually managed to find a guest to help me through the Saturday half hour, starting with Chris Morton. So the format was one race, a couple of interviews, possibly a guest, a comprehensive listing of fixtures for the night and week ahead. The rest was me, working from notes perched on my knee, with slide inserts to relieve the viewer's agony ;-) No, we couldn't run to autocue. No, none exist as far as I can ascertain. We ran weekly through the main season and monthly through the winter so there were over thirty shows a year. We tried. The only feedback we got from the BSPA was "Canterbury are complaining that you're hitting their crowd". Our programme was over by 6 every Saturday... Depressingly it comes as no surprise that some BSPA members are still stupid enough to believe that TV isn't a help. After 30+ years you would hope they'd learned. People wonder why I get frustrated with certain people in speedway? .

You have got to remember that Stoke Potter believes that all tracks should be the same as like Polish tracks and if that means some(or most) tracks have to close, so be it. What a tosser he is. Redcar is way better than a training track.

Ivan had an exeptional year in 1979 personally, but don't get me started on the league ^^, ....

Don't worry about Härtel, he is a good one ! I have seen him ride here in Bavaria since he was a schoolboy. He won the German U21 title three years in a row, and was a world U21 finalist. His progress was held back by a few unneccessary crashes in the last couple of years ago, but he is now back on track and I expect him to become a top class international performer. As a 20 y/o Härtel is already a world class rider in long-track, he was runner-up in the World L-T Championship last year. In Speedway I'd currently rate him roughly the same class as the Riss brothers. He will need a little bit of time to adopt to British Speedway in his first year, but Härtel is certainly a good signing for the WItches !

Scott Nicholls would not be allowed to guest under the present rules, and even if he was it certainly would be a less than ideal situation for any team that cannot put a team together given they have the best part of six months to get sorted during the winter break. Its things like this situation and many others before that make the sport more like a Brian Rix farce and will only serve to turn people away .

I backed him at 16/1. Easy money especially as I knew he had already won. The first four heats were recorded on Sky but the bookmakers never knew that. Bloody awful meeting despite a good crowd

Cheers Iris - I was expecting you may have seen a bit more of him than me! There is that question mark over him - as you say highly rated from a young age but very quiet in the last vouple of years (certainly in speedway terms anyway) If he replicates Tobi he will do fine. Tobi is still very popular with many Ipswich fans having fond memories of his time as a Witch.

Difficult for me to say.Live I have only seen him in 1 heat in which he fell and was out for the rest of the meeting Remember watching him on tv in a Euro meeting I think from Landshut and he looked a great prospect a few years ago,but his progress seems to have stalled a bit.Here's hoping he is a good 'un Have to say,i never rated Kroner much.He always seemed to be a bit behind Smoli,Hefenbrock,Wölbert and Matze Schultz at the time,but he had a decent career and Schultz didn't achieve very much,so what do I know

You have got to be having a comparing Kinsley to Dugard. Kinsley might not score well at Eastbourne, but he hasn't been sacked from his last two clubs because of poor scores and, apparently, poor attitude. Dugard has more talent than some might suggest but it is going to take a major change for him to consistently show decent form.

There was a time not too long ago when I would have disdained this view. Having been to Isle of Wight and seen the methods used by the promotion there to attract new fans, I have completely reversed that position. First of all, there is a massive effort to make sure people know they are there. Then when they get them to come, there is an equally massive effort to make sure they stay. Makes a significant and most welcome change from absolutely no effort at all in the first place and then a surly 'we are doing you a favour' attitude that is so prevalent amongst promoters across the country.

Football is awash with money mainly from the sky TV deal and the worldwide TV deal Rugby League allowed TV to change the structure to Super League and are now building new stadiums from the bump up of money entering the game Darts from a pub game to selling out arenas such as 02 mainly from the Premier League and other events all on TV Cricket 20/20 specifically designed for yes you guessed it TV But Speedway thinks TV is negative for it "Lions led by Donkeys"

BT aren't the ones with the problem re the Premier League deal - that's firmly Sky's problem. The lesson has been learnt and the next deal will be less on both sides. BT's resources dwarf Sky's so I wouldn't be worried about their finances. They are leaving Sky to make the desperate deals and are clearly looking to ensure that future deals in all sports are financially justifiable. It looks like they've tested the BSPA this year with their initial offer. It is frightening that members of the BSPA still can't see the value of a TV deal. Most other minority sports would be biting BT's hand off. But then there is the real world, the sporting world and then British Speedway's......

Maybe, but races often continued with a rider laid on the track in those days . Kennett & Olsen were effectivley 'ganging up' on Ivan from behind and were going to get by sooner or later and, no, he never blamed Kennett for his fall. Whilst on the deck, conveniently near the pit gate, Ivan began planning for his 1979 assault on the title. Incedentally, I read somehere that Olsen had a 'special' JAWA prepared for that 1978 Final and the engine blew up in the next meeting....

Pletschacher and Busch are the reserves too. Just wondering who will get the WC for Inzell? Luca "Smiler' Bauer?

Good to see the club launch the new junior members trackside club, hopefully it proves successful and gets more youngsters interested in the sport. I think they will be doing more school visits aswell.

I have discovered details of Rons Cremation...please go to the LOWESTOFT JOURNAL issue...a full page on Ron..Cremation will be at WAVENEY CREMATORIUM...01 MARCH..Midday...please pass this on JAMES EASTER

Neil Machin (then co-promoter at Sheffield) was a great advocate for a 'Match of the Day' type highlights programme. I can't remember why it didn't get 'off the ground,' but I wouldn't be surprised if money didn't play a part.

Of course beating the likes of Milik, Dudek, G Laguta, Pr Pawlicki, Fricke, Zagar and Kildemand in the qualifiers happened on those well known British tracks Lonigo, Terenzano and Togliatti. The new Chris Harris? I'm sure Cook would be happy with a GP win and several more podium finishes

Let’s hope so - my only concern is he’s allowed to make a difference .

hoggy is prob one of the best , if not THE best presenters in speedway . i think he has a bigger fan base than some of the riders ! its been enjoyable listening to him for the last few years and i hope he has enjoyed the cumbrian craic . i hope he can continue with his banter and wit @workington for years to come . the same must be said for all those people who give up their spare time to help run the club and meeting . me, i am looking forward to the end of march to enjoy the delights of what looks like a good team (with a few! locals scoped in ! )hope you can do a few HOME meetings in 2018 tiger . but that hoggy guy . LEG END or whot ?

If promoters actually promoted the sport properly in their local areas then the TV coverage could be a huge promotional tool going forward...for every person lost they should gain 2....if there is no promotion and no TV then nobody is going to even know about league speedway and it's future is far bleaker ..TV is a must..

Some of you may know that Hoggy gives me a lift to home meetings and I have just been speaking to him about his involvement in 2018, because due to business commitments I know that Friday nights could be difficult. He has said that the promotion want him to continue with Saturdays and he is making every effort to come for at least some Fridays. I'll admit I am biased (and my lifts might be affected if I say otherwise ) but I think he is a top quality presenter, so this has to be good news and a reflection on the promotions efforts to retain their existing supporter base and attract new ones during 2018. A big part of Dave's motivation for trying to sort out Fridays is his genuine affection for the hospitality and kindness of the people of Workington, something he has mentioned to me many times. I did have a couple of trips to Dodge City pencilled in but it looks likely that that will be increased at least a bit

Hmmm it must be too very , very nice for him to know obviously

You're a sensible person, Philip, but . . . . you cannot see that the opportunity to view a league match at home, or down the pub or wherever, instead of attending at track in person, is one that many folk have taken, and will continue to take Part of the attraction is the visual aspect of tv replays, and information from the pits - neither of which can be enjoyed in the stadium Of course there's the cost element too, and if it's a family rather than an individual which decides to view from the armchair, there's a significant saving to be had Please explain why you don't see it - you suggest that some promoters do! I do too - in advancing years and reduced income, I have limited my attendance as the tv alternative has become available

When I visit I will bring some and chuck it on the track, the same as we used to do.

And they were against the domestic TV deal ... no clashes there

Minutes silence for the Chatzone / Chatroom. Wonderful service run by ML and Dekker and a sad loss. Definitely enjoyed the banter there during a magnificent run, and all the texting from Monarchs fans up and down the country. Have a graceful retirement Caroline, and a few beaujolais

Think that we need to research that a bit. How about you avoiding the thread for 10 months and we'll see if it survives

Ok, so what about printing attendance figures for each match and then comparing them with when tv is in attendance. That would prove or disprove that theory straight away.

A team competition implies a certain strength-of-depth, otherwise why not just have 1-rider teams to allow more countries to be competitive? There's really only 9 test playing countries, but no-one suggests turning that sport's premier competition into single wicket cricket to make things more competitive. This best pairs competition just shows a complete lack of imagination and devalues one of the better events in the calendar. There's nothing new or unique about it whatsoever, and whilst it might be tolerable if it alternated with the SWC (as originally indicated), now it seems that it's actually intended to replace the SWC.

Being on tv may not have affected crowd levels in general, but no one really knows for sure. What is sure though is they certainly haven't gone up since being on tv. I know of a few people that don't go as much now as they can watch it on tv.

I thought that what has been shown is that you can get a good crowd if it is promoted properly at a much reduced admission fee. That doesn't mean that it is as profitable or less loss making than a meeting not on TV. I certainly think the overall benefits of a TV deal will outweigh not having one. However, I do think that with fixed nights it will have an effect on attendances not just at the televised meeting but also other meetings held that same night. The unknown factor is how much of an effect it will have.

I agree, it's nonsense, although I think all they are seeing is low attendance on covered meetings sometimes. However, it has been shown several times, that if a meeting is promoted properly then you will get a good crowd at a televised meeting.

THEY don't want TV ... believe it affects their attendances. Utter nonsense. Neither BT nor SKY are desperate to cover domestic speedway and if the door were to close it is hard to see it opening again.

Looking at the drawings for the revised scheme for the redevelopment of the Abbey Stadium on the council web site I would comment as follows It does not help that some of the descriptions of the drawings/documents do not match the actual drawings/documents which suggests a less than professional approach or a rushed and unchecked submission. This is further reinforced by the fact that there are two different car park layouts/size and shape of grandstand shown on different drawings- the one on the master plan dated May 2017 is different from that on the site plan dated December 2017. I would have expected that the relevant consultant would revised the drawings so that everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet and the planners know what they are approving, the builder knows what he is building and the developer knows what he is paying for. Whilst the first floor hospitality area is large (approx. 37.5m x 19.5m) I would question how useful it will be for speedway or greyhound fans who want to watch the racing. The floor is flat and the two projecting wings at either end of the viewing balcony limit the amount of the speedway/greyhound track that can be seen and anybody viewing the racing from the balcony will further restrict the view of fans in the hospitality area. I assume that its main function will be to generate monies from conferences/functions etc There are two stands shown at either end of the main “grandstand” building 11m x 10m and 25m x 10m but the submitted drawings gave no further details. Judging by the perspectives of the grandstand posted on this forum these stand appear to be temporary stands similar to those at Leicester but with no cover! Other than these stands and the first floor viewing balcony fans will have to stand on the hardstand which runs round the outside of the greyhound track but as there no site sections are included in the submitted documents it is impossible to say if the hardstand is flat, sloping or terraced so viewing could be a problem -remember the complains about the viewing at the Belle Vue Greyhound Stadium There are two rooms at either end of the viewing balcony which are I assume control rooms for the speedway and greyhounds. The one at the east end is approx 4m back from the first bend and the one at the west end is in line with the end of the fourth bend. The drawings state that the length of the new track is 420m and the home straight measures some 38m and if we assume that the start/finish is half way along the straight then the east box is some 12m in start of the start/finish line whilst the west one is some 26m behind the start/finish line. This could be a problem as some refs have trouble making the correct decision when they are in the traditional location in line with the start/finish line. Also the ref’s boxes are accessed from the main public stairs so I trust the doors are strong and have good locks. The site plan show a total of 469 car parking spaces plus space for 24 motor cycles, 5 spaces for mini buses, 3 spaces for coaches plus a bus stop/lay-by. I understand from the last season eve of season Speedway Star special that the Abbey Stadium is not served by public transport. It is some years since I saw 8 buses or coaches at a speedway meeting so the number of spaces for buses/coaches does appear to be excessive or maybe they are required to encourage people to get to the stadium by other means than car as required by the transport plan for the previous scheme. The buses/coaches appear to have a separate one way exit route from that used by cars but all exit routes join together and exit onto Lady Lane. This may be a problem when a large crowd tried to exit at the same time. There appears to be no access from the ground floor reception area to the main spectator area without using the stairs/platform lift so I assume that the public access to the spectator area is via turnstiles either side of the “grandstand” but the submitted drawings do not give any information. Also the riders have to cross the hard standing to access the track so measures will have to be taken to prevent riders riding into spectators. Considering that the reason for the decision to redevelop the current site of the stadium rather than move the stadium is due to problems with drainage it does seem strange that it appears that the relevant consultants have not discussed or reached agreement with the relevant statuary authorities which has resulted in the Lead Local Flood Authority recommending that the scheme not approved as it does not comply with current guidance or there is outstanding information. Although it is not part of the planning application the question that does need asking is when the developer /contractor hopes to build the development. The scheme involves changing the size and shape of the speedway and greyhound tracks, building two car parking areas and associated access road and junctions, demolishing the existing grandstand and erecting new grandstand and if the speedway/greyhound racing continues during the construction period ensuring the safety of the public who will be attending the speedway and greyhound.

Cancelled my Speedway Star Subscription , all i need to do is log in here read Jengas post's all the hot topics you need save money sorted.

Getting fat?

Think the new rule is when James Sargeant goes follow him!!!!

I think I read that the greyhound stadium is going the same way as Wimbledon’s stadium in Plough Lane. I’m sure there are restrictions on numbers in the stadium due to health & safety issues. If it’s true it's a very familiar story, run it to the ground and sell it off for housing. As for a Romford Reunion bring it on! Great times with fantastic rivalry between Brian Foote and Crayford’s Tony Childs. Dave Lanning [and his Eastbourne Eagles] had a love/hate relationship with the Bombers fans, George Major and Alf Wells weren’t particularly popular either! As for Len Silver and his Rayleigh Rockets….. 1976 World Speedway Champion Peter Collins had one meeting at the Brooklands Stadium in 1971, wonder what he made of the place? In those days promoters were a different class to the muppets who ran clubs today! Maurice Morley now 93 I believe is in reasonable health and wouldn’t it be fantastic to see at the Romford Reunion!