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would have gone on to be the greatest rider ever

no but he will be this year

Reading the forum and the comments re Roberts interview in Speedway Star. I am not giving my opinion on it. However some facts my help you. I have done an approx. costing for a rider doing one UK league. Naturally a rider doubling up, some costs would increase or decrease or not exist. These figures are from my experience for an annual cost to a rider. 2 bikes/engines @ £8000 each = £16000 spread over 2 years = £8000 Spares £4000 (surprising how many spares needed in a season and that’s without a blown engine cost) Other equipment - helmet/goggles/tools £1000 Oils/Lubricants/bike cleaning materials etc. £500 Van hire 8 months £2400 Mechanic £4500 Flights 50% of cost £3000 Airport travel costs £500 Budgeting travel Rain off expenses ( no income ) £1000 Fuel van £800 Engine servicing £3000 Insurance van £800 ( many mechanics under 25 ) Injury Insurance rider £400 Sundry misc. expenses £1000 (always unexpected costs) Total £30900 These are the costs, looking back through them it would be easy to increase some. But this gives a ball park figure. Naturally some costs are off set by sponsors supplying their goods which a rider uses. But it is still a cost and a rider needs equipment sponsors as well as cash sponsors. From this total cost, now you can can calculate how much a rider needs to earn per point or plus get sponsor deals to make it all pay. Certain some of you will argue these figures. That’s your opinion, but as for 5 years I’ve being paying invoices I know these figures are a good ball park figure. I am just giving factual figures - this is not my opinion of what’s right or wrong. I will leave it to you to do your own calculations and come up with what ever view you wish.

Where have I said he’s on the same planet as Leigh, all I’ve said is he rides the Abbey as well as Leigh. I’ve been lucky to see Leigh ride at Swindon for all of his career & he is the master of the Abbey, Morris is fast becoming a master in his own right......oh, I watched Darcy & he wasn’t bad.

I should imagine every Polish Extraleague club has looked at Morris. No takers. It’s the Championship. Kurtz rides Extraleague in 2018. Is Morris even riding Polish league 1? I have nothing against Morris but I doubt he will go any further than the level he is at right now. Perhaps a Schlein level, not quite a Davey Watt.

Gavan is only obsessed by Poole riders.

.....and a Wolverhampton heat leader (and reigning Australian champion) and a Belle Vue heat leader....but they don’t ride for Poole so they don’t get criticised do they!!!!!

I like this character of yours better DropaCog/FredFlange/Wibble/FledFlange. Still got the same issue with repeating the same phrases every other post, but this less intelligent, abusive alter-ego is a refreshing change.

How strange that a “new” poster makes these comments. It leads one to think he is someone in disguise. But regardless of that, there’s a thread in the international speedway section for the Aussie championships. It is an individual comp so very little to do with cluttering up the Poole threads. If you are a Belle Vue fan go celebrate Tungates win over there and leave this part so we can discuss just how good the 2018 Pirates team is shaping up.

Congratulations to Tungate and Fricke, first and third in the Australian Championship.

I think the Robert Lambert knocking has been done enough now. It's time to move on and look forward to the start of the season. And to the announcement of the final 4 riders.

£400 a point ?????? Lol

Isn't the solution to the disparity of wealth not a GB Super League but a Euro League (or in reality the richer teams joining the Polish League) I think the reality is the even the Polish and Swedish "Elite" leagues are not without financial problems and might welcome a new era which I think would represent the first genuine pan European sports league. Probably run/branded by a BSI/One Sport type organisation to administrate on team strength you'd hope it could attract decent media coverage. Eventually developed into a 16 team European league with the bulk of teams from Poland, Sweden and the UK it could eventually incorporate teams/franchises from other nations (Denmark, Germany, Czech Republic, even Russia) the 30 meeting regular season should provide enough fixtures for GP standard riders with the teams supplemented by those also riding in domestic leagues. Whilst the standard would be a little lower than the current Polish top division it would be an uplift on the current Premiership. Domestically in the UK there'd be a two league structure. One Championship standard (made up of those Premiership teams not in the Euro league and the current Championship teams) featuring those riders who wish to supplement Euro League racing and those riders based in the UK including youngsters from the National League.

Thanks for your information David, I don't doubt your honesty one bit. This more than anything illustrates just how much the sport has become too expensive and unsustainable. A sport where attendances struggle to reach 1500 it is ridiculous economics for a new rider to contemplate in participating. Top riders are expected to earn decent money which would more then cover those costs, but the majority of riders are less prominent and would struggle to make them ends meet. It is little wonder the riders need that amount to compete and also see why the promoters are flogging a dead horse. Many years ago, in conversation with Terry Betts when riding a 2 value Jawa, he said he purchased a new bike every year, keeping last years as a spare. After each meeting it was hosed down and the chain oiled. Additionally, after each month, the chain and tyres were replaced. He commented this would guarantee competitive equipment for the whole season. How things have changed!!! No the races weren't as fast but the enjoyment was just as good... We need new ideas to control those costs. David has just illustrated the outlay is way out of line....

Until Poole's first fixture of course.. You will then be weeping like a little 'un' prior to the meeting as you always do !

If said new non Brit has such a great chance of improving their average that just shows the original assessment has been set too low..... The league doesnt really need new 5 point and sub 5 point riders I would set entry level at min 6

SCB's thin veneer of intelligence is once more stripped away by his rancid and repugnant ageism. It's a familiar argument - "I know a pensioner who's well-off so every one of them must be." It's as intellectually and morally bankrupt as "All these foreigners are taking our jobs". I do wonder if he's got a problem with his parents or other elderly relatives, given the sick bitterness and prejudice he continually shows to the elderly. In another recent thread he came up with what were superficially intelligent comments about the way forward but which were invalidated by his comment "Stop pandering to the old, they'll be dead soon", or words to that effect. I'll leave you to consider for a moment just how repugnant that is. Don't be taken in by someone who is obsessed withe speedway rule book and averages. It doesn't make them intelligent, merely fixated. I had to correct him ages ago when he was spouting this regulation and that to point out that he was completely ignoring the key part of the rule book, the supplementary regulations which are issued during a season and regularly amend those rules., I remember SCB complaining about the car park at a certain track on the basis that it was damaging his very expensive car. Lovely chap. I'd park mine outside ;-) If people were singled out for such abuse on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality they would be rightly condemned by most reasonable people in society and in many cases prosecuted. So why is ageism allowed? Speedway may have an age profile that could do with reducing. The SCB's of this world would achieve that by making the sport hostile to the elderly and forcing them out on the basis that the young and 'cool' (i.e. his own perception of himself) are put off by the sight of geriatrics viciously sitting down because they can't stand up for two hours and callously drinking hot drinks from a flask because they know that the stuff on sale at the track is awful quality and overpriced. Shame on them! It's not the elderly that are the problem, it's the shallow, ignorant outlook of certain people at the other end of the age spectrum. Still, there's one consolation, given the modern trend to despise the old by the time he gets to be in that age group life's going to be pretty appalling for him. Yes I have attacked the poster, and I have not one iota of apology for doing this. I've posted some strong views on here over the years but they have all been based on a deep love of and concern for the sport, and not my ego. I had my brief spell in the spotlight and I can tell you I am much, much happier sitting quietly in the shadows now. When I see SCB's posts I see raw ego. I worked with a few TV technicians like him in the past and you would sometimes get those who developed appalling arrogance through working in the industry. I thought I'd seen the worst.......until now. I remember years back Sittingbourne getting their only away Conference League win at Newport. Almost everyone on the BSF were congratulating the then Crusaders on finally getting a win. One kid wasn't though. He went through every decision made in the match, every pass and incident, desperately trying to prove that the Kent side hadn't deserved their win. Ever since then I've been waiting for SCB to grow up. Seems like I've got a longer to go. Still, I'll probably be dead first, eh? Rob McCaffery - aged 60 and expecting the basic state pension only, if that when I can finally afford to retire. You see, instead of building up a career I spent too much time with speedway. I'm now partially disabled so have to have a seat at a track even if it's a folding one which SCB so despises. After 46 years of course I don't deserve a small concession on the admission in my advancing old age.....It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport in my final years without having to put up with prejudice from this shallow clown.

Should Speedway ditch the family sport tag and go for the dirty, dangerous, raw sport tag? I think probably so!

Pretty much sums it up. It's how many feel, who have either given up on the sport or who only go because of the company you keep rather than the spectacle you see.

Jesus f'ing Christ. Kurtz has big potential on the world stage IMO. Morris improved shed loads last season, held the team together when no Doyley and pretty much won us the league at Wolves. Both sets of fans like their number 1s and they will be in the top 5 of the averages next season. Who gives a F about the rest!!

You are welcome to him, the rider that Poole fans were claiming would win the Aus Championship and not get beaten by a second string rider.

Morris

Unfortunately in my view topics like these are raised not for a general discussion but through resentment that some get a benefit not available to others.

Does that matter?You still have to look at the topic and ask yourself 'is there a point worth discussing'?I agree with Halifaxtiger,that some people have aimed abuse at scb for no real good reason As I have said,if the oap reduction is a sort of mark of respect for all the years of service to club and country,then I wouldn't argue against it

Well, that’s the Ausy Champs 4 rounds complete. Great battle between Tungate and B Kurtz throughout with J Holder taking the spoils today, the victor overall was Rohan and congratulations to him. Brady made a mess of the final again and finished 2nd with X Monarch, Max Fricke 3rd Josh can hold his head high in such company although he probably wanted more. Commiserations to our friend Sam who had to pull out of leading into ht 1 with an ankle injury. James Davies reared in practice and knocked himself out, Sam could not avoid his bike. Hope both are not seriously injured

I remember a certain Mr Ward starting his career in a similar fashion and look how he turned out 5 years later into his career before it was sadly cut short. Brady will get there just needs time, he won't do a Darcy but won't be far off. At least another Poole asset won the meeting well done Jack.

Yes, you are a former poster! The pie-rats gives it away, can't remember the name though... Trackrat, was it??!

Stevebrum was talking about Hans

Just as well Brady rides the UK tracks a lot better then - as his higher average proves. I seem to remember Rohan couldn't hack it as a Number 1 and had to settle for a 6.18 2nd string role!!!

Won't the Monday night clubs be the opposition on Wednesdays?

He as got till march to get him self fit if need be but hope its not to serious

So looking at the results my earlier post seems to have gathered momemtum... Iwema being 7th at Ylitornio gives him the right for one. He wasnt the fastest but rode clever and bold lines and wasnt afraid to mix it. Also he's the kind of rider that the series need, being young, athletic looking and from a "new" yet traditional ice racing country.

Maybe once or twice he hasn't looked for his team mate but generally i think he does, Holder never team rides, Darcy used to team ride Holder. All speedway riders are journeymen! Hans will be missed, we may win the league but it won't be because we got rid of Hans.

Webb, how about back in the day when Mr Kings Lynn,Terry Betts use to Tell Maurice/Cyril he wouldn't be back the following season just to squeeze a few quid extra out of them? All part of the game, or not very professional ?

Jesus christ this thread is something else. Sundstrom was a near 8 pointer when riding in this league a few years ago, hes got better as a rider and the league has been watered down hugely. i am no fan of Poole and to be honest most of their fans annoy the hell out of me but if they round this team off with Sundstrom and Shanes, it really does look head and shoulders above any of the rest. Kurtz is a young improving star of the future, Holder at worst will hold his average, Josh G averaged 7 riding at number one last season and starts as a third heatleader, Sundstrom is a quality rider who can ride all tracks big or small, Woryna is a hot prospect who will surely make a mockery of his average, the other Pole is the stand out reserve in the league and Shanes is improving and has a year under his belt plus has secured more meetings for 2018. sorry but if any other team announced this line up nearly every fan on here would be saying how good it looks. given the rules and averages etc, it is the stand out side. Thats assuming Shanes and Sundstrom sign but it looks so good that even if they dont, they will still take some stopping.

It would be good to have Robbo and Ludde in the team, their not the best gaters but,,, with the relaxed starting rules they might do even better and some gating tarts might get found out. (James Seargant to double his average this season.)

I would say your final rider will be kk probably Matt Ford causing the delay imo

No

Many a time I have paid £32 on the gate at a BSB event and have never felt that I have not had value for money. It is an excellent day out for the cash and I cannot always say that about speedway. Next week I am going to the Arenacross which again is fantastic value at £36. In our group we are taking a mum and her 11 year old who has never been to a motorcycle event. She wanted to show him motorbikes in the action as he quite enjoys the moto gp on tv. I know that taking him there he will have a great night as it is non stop entertainment for 3 hours. As living near Reading the closest track to me is Swindon and I know if we took them there the chance of her wanting to return is low due to the facilities at the stadium and the journey being a pain. The only speedway that I would take them to is Cardiff.

So sad, what happened to Brandon. I had many an enjoyable meeting there. I remember a brilliant night not so long ago. Swindon put in an amazing win, with Darcy Ward in a class of his own. I never, for one second during that meeting, considered that it might be the last time I visited Brandon or the last time I would see Darcy ride. It turned out to be both. Life, eh?

Absolutely. If he refuses what Scandinavian rider accepts then tough breast, as long as they are on a par with what similar ability riders are getting elsewhere.

SCB, even taking your view, don't forget that many pensioners paid into the system and paid the full admission price at speedway throughout their working lives and subsidised whatever benefits you think they now receive for those who were pensioners when they were younger. You can argue about statistics as to which group was relatively better off 10,15 or 20 years ago but the fact is that few, if any of those who are now pensioners begrudged the older generation a few "perks" when they were working. We thought they had worked hard all their lives and deserved a few benefits in their later years. However, put all that aside. The fact is that many commercial organisations offer discounts to many different sections of the community because they see it as sound commercial sense to do so. Teachers, civil servants, members of certain organisations. people who buy certain brands of products, are all offered discounts ranging from buying insurance, to holidays, to purchasing many different types of goods and for entertainment and leisure activities. There's nothing altruistic in offering pensioners these same discounts. It is done for exactly the same reasons as for any other group, because businesses think it commercially advantageous for them to do it. Much as it may grieve you I suspect that as a group we will be offered even more discounts because we shall be even more attractive to businesses as there will be more of us because we are living longer.

He like all speedway riders is self employed, it is up to him to get the best contract he can subject to his ability, skill and scoring power. If he expects to be able to make a living out of the sport he needs to negotiate a better contract, get out and acquire a lot of sponsorship or ride for other teams. If he cannot demand the income he wants then he needs to improve and do something about it. If anyone in any job expects to earn a living they need to be in a position where their skills etc are worth want they want as an income. If they are young and learning they have to accept a lower income to start with.

Let's turn your question around. Why shouldn't Lambert expect to make a living out of speedway? He's expected to make himself available to King's Lynn, turn up fit and health, with machinery prepared and ready to race. Most people expect to make a living from their job, why shouldn't speedway riders?

I doubt that there are many rich pensioners that include speedway as an interest.. The OAP concession should remain

Theatres , cinemas , trains , buses ,football games.... all give concessions amongst many others. there are plenty of pensioners who are very glad of a little financial help

Because if the Brits don’t come first and we lose our British riders the national team with disappear, the profile of the sport will sink even lower, the sport won’t be able to afford the extra costs of flying in riders, our league will be at the beck and call of the foreign leagues, just like last season with Poland dictating where riders should ride, there will be less interaction between riders and potential local supporters because they will rarely be in the country, there will be less interest in a sport in which only foreigners participate, all us families who support NL riders and give our time to clubs for free will be lost to the sport ....

.....and another award for Matt Ford Fan

Yes, let's lose a quality production, expertly presented by an experienced presenter with a solid speedway pedigree and programmes shown consistently as advertised and matches covered reliably and complete. Let's go for a service that can't be relied on to show matches reliably in a regular time slot and often delays coverage until late at night, often cutting out heats and whose basic presentation leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. It's also a station that rarely actually covers the meetings themselves, relying on taking the World Feed from BSI when they showed the Grand Prixs and simply took a feed from CMore when they showed Swedish speedway. The only speedway they've covered themselves has been the OneSport SEC and Pairs events. Yes, let's go from quality to third-rate and unreliable.....