Snyper1010 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ok i aint sure if this has ever been done and if it has i apologise. But being halfway through the "Tragedy" book about Kenny Carter i got thinking who people would class as the best rider never to actually be World Champion. So i was thinking that we could name who we think it was and if you wanted you could maybe put your own reason/thoughts/analysis as to why said rider never got their hands on the most sought after prize in speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Tomasz Gollob has to be a contender among the current batch. Would probably have won more than one under the old system. Possibly 3 or 4, depending on where in Poland they decided to stage it! Regularly comes to the party when it matters in World Championship meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Ok i aint sure if this has ever been done and if it has i apologise. But being halfway through the "Tragedy" book about Kenny Carter i got thinking who people would class as the best rider never to actually be World Champion. So i was thinking that we could name who we think it was and if you wanted you could maybe put your own reason/thoughts/analysis as to why said rider never got their hands on the most sought after prize in speedway. Snyper, it's obviously Ryan Fisher. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Tomasz Gollob has to be a contender among the current batch. Would probably have won more than one under the old system. Possibly 3 or 4, depending on where in Poland they decided to stage it! Regularly comes to the party when it matters in World Championship meetings. If you are looking at current GP riders then you can add Leigh Adams to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Ok i aint sure if this has ever been done and if it has i apologise. But being halfway through the "Tragedy" book about Kenny Carter i got thinking who people would class as the best rider never to actually be World Champion. So i was thinking that we could name who we think it was and if you wanted you could maybe put your own reason/thoughts/analysis as to why said rider never got their hands on the most sought after prize in speedway. Has been done on forum, My choice would also be Ryan Fisher Edited August 27, 2009 by Fromafar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyHart Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Seeing as i only got into speedway in the late Nineties, it always made me wonder about when Billy Hammil became WC, obviously he was a good rider back then, but was he as good as Adams, Gollob etc are/were? Edited August 27, 2009 by MattyHart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snyper1010 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Snyper, it's obviously Ryan Fisher. All the best Rob He aint retired or deceased yet It can be riders from either format. But i would have to agree that Leigh Adams has long been of World Champion quality. Do you really feel its his "nice guy" personality that has let him down as people sometimes say or do you think there is more to it than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 If you are looking at current GP riders then you can add Leigh Adams to the list. Leigh may have won a title under the old system, and may even be a better rider than Gollob overall. But in World terms Gollob has, I feel, shone more. In league racing I'd say "yes" about Leigh Adams, but in World Championship terms I'd go for Gollob as more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Leigh may have won a title under the old system, and may even be a better rider than Gollob overall. But in World terms Gollob has, I feel, shone more. In league racing I'd say "yes" about Leigh Adams, but in World Championship terms I'd go for Gollob as more likely. Agree but under the old one off system was it easier to be World Champ,Id say it was.I mean would Egon Muller ever have been World Champ under this GP system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Agree but under the old one off system was it easier to be World Champ,Id say it was.I mean would Egon Muller ever have been World Champ under this GP system. It was far harder to win a one-off World title. One slip, just one dropped point could mean that was it for another 12 months. In contrast, over a GP series, a rider can drop a lot of points and still be World Champ. I miss the sheer drama of the one-off World Final. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Agree but under the old one off system was it easier to be World Champ,Id say it was.I mean would Egon Muller ever have been World Champ under this GP system. Well, easier if you weren't the best rider in the world. Possibly harder if you were - as Hans Neilsen would probably testify. There are many riders who probably wouldn't have made World Champ under the GP system. I doubt even riders like Ermolenko, Michanek and Jan O. Pedersen would have, let alone Muller, Havelock and that Polish bloke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snyper1010 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Agree but under the old one off system was it easier to be World Champ,Id say it was.I mean would Egon Muller ever have been World Champ under this GP system. Wasnt really a "one off" was it. I mean there was qualifiers to be won to actually be there. So the riders that did take part in the "one off" final were all there on merit. Shame the same cant be said for todays GP series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 I would say certain riders just don't have the mental toughnes to be a World Champ,regardless of the system.Leigh Adams i think would be a bottler in a one off final,just as he is in the GP's when the stress is on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Tom Farndon, who sadly died the year before the World Championship started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Well, easier if you weren't the best rider in the world. Possibly harder if you were - as Hans Neilsen would probably testify. There are many riders who probably wouldn't have made World Champ under the GP system. I doubt even riders like Ermolenko, Michanek and Jan O. Pedersen would have, let alone Muller, Havelock and that Polish bloke. I think Michanek would have won it in 73 (instead of 74) under a GP system, and Ermolenko was so good in 93 that he would have won it that year under a GP format too. (Similarly while I don't think Jonsson would have won under a GP format in 1990, he could have done so in 1992) Ultimately whatever the system there will only be one world champion per year. What a GP system does is to share those titles among a smaller number of riders. And back to the original question: Vic Duggan, Jack Parker, Igor Plechanov, Zenon Plech, and any Moran of your choice would be the top of my list. Edited August 28, 2009 by arnieg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsloes 1928 nearly Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I think Michanek would have won it in 73 (instead of 74) under a GP system, and Ermolenko was so good in 93 that he would have won it that year under a GP format too. (Similarly while I don't think Jonsson would have won under a GP format in 1990, he could have done so in 1992) Ultimately whatever the system there will only be one world champion per year. What a GP system does is to share those titles among a smaller number of riders. And back to the original question: Vic Duggan, Jack Parker, Igor Plechanov, Zenon Plech, and any Moran of your choice would be the top of my list. Spot on arnie. We agree so much (even on choice of prog. boards! ) that people will start to talk!! You can't get better than THIS list of "best" riders not to be World Champs. On the purely empirical test of number of rostrum positions without ever being on the top step, Gollob is head and shoulders above the others. Plechanov's one of only two riders only to be runner-up twice but never champ: the wonderful Split Waterman's the other. Duggan and Parker dominated in years when there was no championship. Plech was also twice on the rostrum and really should've been the Polish champ that was ordained in '73. Moran's I can't agree with you - but then I think that was your little jest!! Anyone who remembers Michanek at this prime will know that, yes, he was without doubt the best in the world in '73 and '74 and would easily have won a GP series in those years. Oh, and Havelock won ALL of the major rounds in his world Final winning year BTW, so no reason at all to diss his credentials as a world champ. On the other hand would competing in six 'rounds' and winning NONE of them make someone a worthy champ..?! That's what England's las "world champ" managed.. I'm sorry to say it, especially with his Kentish connections but there's no question that the LEAST deserving World Champ in history is our own Mark Loram... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 I was just going to say Vic Duggan and Jack Parker, but I'm too late. Therefore, I will add the name of Vic Huxley to the list. Steve PS Derek, I fully endorse your views regarding Messrs Loram and Havelock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Nigel Boocock Tom Farndon Dave Jessup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 We shouldn't forget Cordy Milne. Hot favourite to win the 1939 Championship which was cancelled four days before it was due to be held owing to the outbreak of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmet Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 . Graham Warren - 1950 Jackie Biggs - 1951 ! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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