25yearfan Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 In tonights Swedish GP why did Bjarne Pederson get 1st pick for gate positions when he only came 2nd in his semi final? Surely the 2 semi final winners should get to pick their gate postions before a guy who came 2nd? Speedways a great sport that would be even better if common sense and logical thinking was applied to the rulebook. The above incident together with Elite League riders having 2 totally unnecesary numbers and the meant with good intentions but badly devised Conference League grading system that gives certain riders over inflated averages gives the sport a rather back to front, laughable image! And of course the fact that my home City of Norwich is once again without its own spedway track and team! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy The Rebel Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 the reason why is that the rules state that whoever finishes 1st in the 5 ride qualification will get 1st pick in the semi and the final if he gets there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 So how do you determine which semi-final winner gets first pick and which gets 2nd? Is it fair a rider scores 8, wins the semi and get first choice but another rider scores 15 and comes 2nd in the semi get second choice. The riders know the rules and they say the 20 heats to start with are used to determine the semi's and the final, where the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Turner Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 And perfectly fair it is too...why should your qualifying score count for something in the Semi's but NOT in the Final ?! The qualifying races are the majority of the meeting after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 The riders know the rules and they say the 20 heats to start with are used to determine the semi's and the final, where the problem? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd suggest that particular rule came as a surprise to one or two in the final Have to say it's a perfectly fine rule with me and rewards consistency over the 5 qualifying races. Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Witch Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Why did Hans get last pick of gates in the semi's? He was on 8 the same as Bjerre and Lindback. All 3 of them had a win, 2 seconds and a third and Hans beat both the others. No doubt an easy answer to this, but I'd be interested to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Turner Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Well I think it's an easy answer...sorry Hans was the lowest scorer in his semi...only fair he got Gate 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Witch Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 (edited) I know that but.... if he beat both Bjerre and Lindback he shouldn't have been in that semi cos he would have been 6th overall. The split according to the Wroclaw programme (thanx Rico) is 1,4,6,7 and 2,3,5 and 8. Bad wording of my original post. Edited May 14, 2005 by London Witch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Turner Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Bad wording...you ? Anyway you're right, they're wrong. Hans and Kenneth Bjerre were in the wrong Semi's. Not the first time the GP races have been wrong, although it was only ever those stupid warm-up races of recent seasons, that they messed-up. What will happen about it...nothing probably ? Not likely to re-run the whole thing, so we'll never know what might have been... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Witch Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Thank you. Wasn't such a silly question after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 (edited) They got it right actually, though the SGP site shows the table incorrectly. From the FIM Site it states 077.9.2 Ties After the completion of Heat 20 When establishing the order between the riders in the list of Intermediate Classification at the conclusion of Heat 20 and for the purpose of deciding riders qualified for the Semi-Finals, ties will be solved as follows: a) Precedence will be given to the riders (tied on race points) having the most number of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th placings (a “0” for last placing is better than being disqualified for whatever reason ). b ) If the tie still persists and involves only 2 riders, precedence will be given to the better placed rider in the heat where the 2 riders met. c ) If the tie still persists and involves more than 2 riders, it shall be checked whether there is a possibility to determine a proper precedence (e.g. 3 riders tied on points: A, B, C: rider A has beaten rider B rider A has beaten rider C rider B has beaten rider C Then the precedence will be: best position for rider A, then rider B and then rider C. d) If solutions a), b ) and c ) cannot resolve the tie, then the lowest riding number jacket will be deemed the better placed rider. Rico Edited May 14, 2005 by Rico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Turner Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Silly question LDubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Witch Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Grrrrr....bloody rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 It would displease someone, no matter how they did it. The chosen rule is reasonably fair and the same for everyone, so if it didn't favour your rider that's tough luck! It will even itself out over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Witch Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 (edited) Keep up Andy! We've now sussed that it was done fairly. And it wasn't a case of Hans being hard done by, I just wondered why he had got last choice, (although I admit I probably wouldn't have noticed if it had been anybody else). EDIT: Assuming its the Hans incident that you are referring to above? Edited May 15, 2005 by London Witch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 So the semi finals are worthless then apart from getting a final place. Didn't BSI state something along the lines of "every race will be worth something". Why not give points to the semi finals aswell but the 1st 2 qualifying for the final still eg heat 21 1st Tony 11 +3 for semi win =14 2nd Bjarne 13 +2 = 15 3rd Antonio 8 +1 =9 GP points 4th Kenneth 8+ 0 = 8 GP points heat 22 1st Nicki 13+3 = 16 2nd Jason 10 + 2 =12 3rd Hans 8+1 =9 GP points 4th Leigh 13+0 = 13 GP points So the final pickings would have been: Nicki, Bjarne, Tony, Jason. It would have rewarded Nicki for the extra race win. Also the 2 semi-finalists that came 3rd would get an extra point. Ok so a rider could have 6 wins and a last in the final but only get 16 instead of 18 but his 18 points would count. Just a thought..... Karl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Total farce. The riders who win thier respective semi-finals should get 1st and 2nd pick of gates for the final. (1st pick allocated to the rider who scores more points in his 5 qualifer rides). Ditto for 3rd and 4th picks. If not then the rider winning the semi does not get any advantage over the 2nd place rider for winning. You MUST gain advantage for beating someone otherwise it's a farce. Outcome of this last night would have been Nicki 1st pick, Trick 2nd, Bjerne 3rd, Jason 4th. Also the re-run situation wants addressing. Either race awarded or handicap start (say 3 metre stagger). The outcome of this total farce was that Trick was robbed of finishing on 50 pts with Crumpy on 38 pts as opposed to 45pts-43pts. Big difference, no wonder Tony was well sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 The problem with your idea 2ndbendbeerhut would arise if a rider scored 8 points and qualified for the semi-final, came second in the semi-final and won the final. He'd have 13 points, but a rider scoring a maximum in the 20 heats but an engine failure in the semi-final would have 15 points. Who would the winner of the GP be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 You MUST gain advantage for beating someone otherwise it's a farce. Of cuorse not. Going by your idea of "fairness", we may as well have an 8 rider GP, top 2 in the semi's to the final and the top winner wins the GP, why bother with the 20 other heats? It's ONLY fair to let the qualifying heats counts towards picking gates, Bjarne was the best rider in the heats to he had first pick in the semi's and the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boardrider Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 they can hardly change the rules to suit 'Tony R' can they? the ref already did his deputy a huge favour in a earlier heat by excluding the wrong rider... anyone would think he 'run' the sport the way they bend over for him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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