Hunty Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I dont know about anyone else but im seriously considering not getting my Cardif ticket this year if these riders of Emil Sayfutdinov's qaulity dont ride. Whats the point, its no longer a championship for the best riders as it is and now they are hindering my enjoyment of the sport why should they recieve my money. Gollob is also saying he wont take his wild card place in the GP's if they are not alllowed to ride SEC aswell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Can't the GP and SEC just live together it's not like speedway has any great worldwide popularity. Surely the SEC creates interest that might rub of on other sections of the sport. Having two effectively parallel GP series is a nonsense, is ultimately not good for the sport, and should never have been allowed to happen. However, I think the SGP has not brought the sport forward as it might have, and the FIM is stuck with a 20-year deal with the current organisers. Clearly some feel they can do better, and no doubt there are some power politics at work in the background. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Having two effectively parallel GP series is a nonsense, is ultimately not good for the sport, and should never have been allowed to happen. However, I think the SGP has not brought the sport forward as it might have, and the FIM is stuck with a 20-year deal with the current organisers. Clearly some feel they can do better, and no doubt there are some power politics at work in the background. How so. The European championship has simply done what the Speedway World Championship and World under 21 has done. Made itself into a series. Your argument is not valid as the SEC has not been pulled out of anyones arce and is a competition with a history. It's not a separate SGP series it's a well established European championship now benefitting from an influx of money and rider interest.. It already existed and how is it some competitions are allowed to expand but they are not. Smart lawyers will eat the FIM for breakfast over this. Why should a European football championship be allowed when we have a World Cup. Oh wait a minute that happens with a great many sports. Your argument that the SGP has not done a great job overall for the sport is valid, many here think the SGP bad for the sport. Not one of them myself. It's a spat about money plain and simple. Someone is not getting their wedge and they are annoyed. But funnily enough it was on telly last year and the SGP has not collapsed because of it. It is collapsing now however as it has forced riders and sponsors to choose. If what we see is true and the Russians favour the SEC and sponsors like NICE and FOGO have made a choice what damage will the SGP suffer as a result of all the fallout from this argument. Edited February 14, 2014 by pandorum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 What an absolute mess these lunatics are making of the sport forcing riders to choose. Were there any riders from weekend British tracks there last year or due to be there this year? Only I think 3 of SEC last year rode in the UK and none from Brit weekend tracks. I don't really think we are important enough to formulate any kind of policy regarding this speedway spat sadly. How are OneSport trampling over the sport? Providing valuable TV coverage and some interesting TV speedway. Can't the GP and SEC just live together it's not like speedway has any great worldwide popularity. Surely the SEC creates interest that might rub of on other sections of the sport. Hans Andersen missed a BEL meeting for a SEC meeting. And what happens when it grows to 8 rounds and 8 weeks of qualifiers so riders are missing for 16 weekends? People will says, "They should have stopped it sooner, it's too late now". I dont know about anyone else but im seriously considering not getting my Cardif ticket this year if these riders of Emil Sayfutdinov's qaulity dont ride. Whats the point, its no longer a championship for the best riders as it is and now they are hindering my enjoyment of the sport why should they recieve my money. Gollob is also saying he wont take his wild card place in the GP's if they are not alllowed to ride SEC aswell! Gollob is not in the GPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) The European championship has simply done what the Speedway World Championship and World under 21 has done. Made itself into a series. Yes, but they're distinctly different competitions. Firstly, the European Championship is not well established - it was one of those pointless competitions created by the UEM a few years ago to give itself something to do, but even then was intended to a 'second tier' competition for riders outside of the SGP or from smaller speedway nations. The problem though, is that speedway is primarily a European sport with primarily European or European-based riders. There's therefore very little need for separate World and European Championships, and if the latter starts resembling the SGP, then of course it's going to start competing for sponsors, venues and riders. Why should a European football championship be allowed when we have a World Cup. The World Cup and European Championships are distinctly different competitions with significantly different teams, but more specifically are coordinated so they don't run in parallel. Two year blocks are set aside for qualifiers and finals in each competition, so it's quite clear which is which. This is usually the case with other sports too - for example, the World Athletics Championships are held in different years to the European Athletics Championships, but again they involve different sets of athletes. In sports such as skiing, the European events are feeder competitions to the World Cup, so again no confusion in status. A better parallel would be the World Cup and Olympic Football Tournament. Once professionals were allowed into the Olympics (although Communist teams were effectively professional), then the Olympics could merely have ended-up a duplicate of the World Cup. That's why it was restricted by FIFA to U23 players so the World Cup remained the premier competition. FIFA clearly saw issues with having duplication, and that's in a sport with far more inters and money than speedway. But funnily enough it was on telly last year and the SGP has not collapsed because of it. One year doesn't prove much as long-term deals would probably have been in place with BSI. The telling thing will be over a longer period. Personally, I think questions being asked of the FIM arrangements is long overdue, but I don't see OneSport as being some sort of Packer-type organisation shaking up the sport for the better. More like a BCCI-type organisation acting totally in its own self-interest without any regard for the wider sport. Edited February 14, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Alternatively you let OneSport trample over the sport taking up more valuable weekend dates and taking more rider from weekend British tracks. I say kill it now. No doubt there will be right and wrongs on both sides, but what price will have to be paid to kill off any of the threats from OneSport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Personally, I think questions being asked of the FIM arrangements is long overdue, but I don't see OneSport as being some sort of Packer-type organisation shaking up the sport for the better. More like a BCCI-type organisation acting totally in its own self-interest without any regard for the wider sport. I agree totally. To be honest I have no idea what OneSport is as I am not really interested nor am I interested in BSI or in the rules of the FIM. I am just a fan who enjoys his TV speedway and can't understand how increased TV coverage can be bad for the sport if it brings in new countries and new sponsors and new interest. It's not like speedway has any great following. Yes, but they're distinctly different competitions. Having two effectively parallel GP series is a nonsense, Make your mind up it's a parallel GP but distinctly different. And it's been going since 2001 which is well established for this sport. Edited February 14, 2014 by pandorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunty Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Sorry i miss read my information...He is quoted as saying 'If the FIM decision will not be changed, I dont accept Wild Card to the Tournament SGP in Bydgoszcz this year!' Edited February 14, 2014 by Ommer UM Speedway Blog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Hans Andersen missed a BEL meeting for a SEC meeting. And what happens when it grows to 8 rounds and 8 weeks of qualifiers so riders are missing for 16 weekends? People will says, "They should have stopped it sooner, it's too late now". My God have the UN been informed. Forgive my flippancy but surely that is not a reason to destroy SEC. It will probably grow if it becomes popular. That is inevitable. But UK speedway is the poverty stricken relation and will be at the mercy of any ideas that come out of Europe. SGP, Under 21s, Polish league all will impact on the UK. Edited February 14, 2014 by pandorum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Make your mind up it's a parallel GP but distinctly different. And it's been going since 2001 which is well established for this sport. You're not reading what has been written again. Humphrey has explained but you are choosing to ignore it.. again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I agree totally. To be honest I have no idea what OneSport is as I am not really interested nor am I interested in BSI or in the rules of the FIM. I am just a fan who enjoys his TV speedway and can't understand how increased TV coverage can be bad for the sport if it brings in new countries and new sponsors and new interest. It's not like speedway has any great following. You, me and many others will be in the same position. Its going to end in a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandorum Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Yes, but they're distinctly different competitions. Firstly, the European Championship is not well established - it was one of those pointless competitions created by the UEM a few years ago to give itself something to do, but even then was intended to a 'second tier' competition for riders outside of the SGP or from smaller speedway nations. The problem though, is that speedway is primarily a European sport with primarily European or European-based riders. There's therefore very little need for separate World and European Championships, and if the latter starts resembling the SGP, then of course it's going to start competing for sponsors, venues and riders. Nope I read it fine. I just don't happen to agree with him is all. That is called a discussion. I left out the History of sport bit as I know what the world cup is SEC IS an established championship as 'a few years' turned out to be 12. A lot for speedway. It's not the first speedway event to evolve. Look at SWC which has been many things in it's history The world championship has evolved as has the under 21s. And as far as pointless competitions go speedway has had more than it's fair share. You're not reading what has been written again. Humphrey has explained but you are choosing to ignore it.. again. Many here say this is some sort of power struggle or about money and if that is the case then what you, I or Humpy say is irrelevant as these people will not care but don't try to peddle your 'you are not reading it' crap as I read really well and have done for a long time. I simply don't agree with Humpy no matter how many sports he tries to bring in to the argument. He has every right to do so of course as thats discussion but the yin also has a yang or else it would not be a discussion but simply a love in Edited February 14, 2014 by pandorum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I am not worried if we have both competitions or not, what is of concern is that a rider can be fined or banned by an organisation that only seems to take money out of the sport and contributes very little. Last year Hans was banned for a period, even though he announced that he would be in the SEC before the league season started. If a lot of riders in the league this year partake in the SEC the league could see more riders missing from meetings and giving our league a miss next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) It's not the first speedway event to evolve. Look at SWC which has been many things in it's history The world championship has evolved as has the under 21s. Yes, but there are no European equivalents to the SWC. The Pairs is a distinctly different type of competition. What's the point in having two GP-type individual competitions with potentially the same riders? If more rounds are needed or someone wants to go to Russia, then why not just extend the SGP? And as far as pointless competitions go speedway has had more than it's fair share. Undoubtedly true, but no reason to keep propagating them. Edited February 14, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Never seen (and probably never will) an actual contract between BSI and any one promoter for a round, but surely no promoter would sign a purely one-way deal??? And that creates a question, that now when the crap has hit the fan and nobody knows how speedway lies in 8 weeks time, what rights do promoters have? Theyve been sold a product with certain criteria, but if the product is considerably weaker, can they call it off? World Champs is World Champ's, I realise that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Never seen (and probably never will) an actual contract between BSI and any one promoter for a round, but surely no promoter would sign a purely one-way deal??? I suppose it depends how desperate or deluded they are - clearly promoters are willing to sign deals where they take the financial risk on a GP. I'd doubt any of the contracts would actually make guarantees about who's riding in the series, as presumably that would would be virtually impossible with multi-year deals and the potential for injuries/retirements etc.. As to whether a rival series taking away draw cards would be grounds for abrogating a hosting contract, I suspect it would end-up getting dragged through the courts to decide. Edited February 14, 2014 by Humphrey Appleby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I am not worried if we have both competitions or not, what is of concern is that a rider can be fined or banned by an organisation that only seems to take money out of the sport and contributes very little. Last year Hans was banned for a period, even though he announced that he would be in the SEC before the league season started. If a lot of riders in the league this year partake in the SEC the league could see more riders missing from meetings and giving our league a miss next year. I'm confused, are you for or against riders being fined if they go off on a jolly up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I'm confused, are you for or against riders being fined if they go off on a jolly up? I am against a rider being fined or banned if they miss a meeting because of a contract to ride elsewhere. If the organisation they sign for second is aware of the prior contract and accepts it that should be the end of the matter. What I object to is a third organisation that appears to contribute nothing or very little to British Speedway imposing a ban. Edited February 14, 2014 by A ORLOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm confused by the rumoured withdrawal of Emil from the GP series. I thought these riders rode for our entertainment? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am against a rider being fined or banned if they miss a meeting because of a contract to ride elsewhere. If the organisation they sign for second is aware of the prior contract and accepts it that should be the end of the matter. What I object to is a third organisation that appears to contribute nothing or very little to British Speedway imposing a ban.Hans was banned by the SCB for riding in an unrecognised meeting that British Speedway ranks alongside any other random individual meeting. The FIM are now banning GP riders competing in the SEC championship. All seems pretty reasonable or what's to stop me declaring now I'm running the the "All of the World except Uruguay Championship" and getting riders to sign up. I'm running it on a Thursday too, so screw the British clubs running on a Thursday! You seem to think that's acceptable? Unless I'm still confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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