Hazzman Posted October 2, 2006 Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Heres my World Rankings judging on League averages of the big three, their GP average and their performance and their team's in the SWC. I have done about 52 riders, these all appeared in the top 30 of the regular meetings for EL, Elitserien and Esktra Liga. Now from an average of these 3 averages you get a position this position counts as a point. Now, the GP's are re-jiged by the average of the GPs, ie. Nicholls pts divided by the 9 Gps he appeared. In so the 15 riders were awarded points from their position. Crump finished first so he scored 1 point. If the rider qualified for next year he got 16 pts, if he received a wild card he got 17 pts, if he rode in the GP Qualifier Grand Final he got 18 pts, if he was a reserve for this years GP he got 19 pts and if the riders fits in none of these he scores 20 pts. Now the SWC section was judged on the riders personal performance his average for the meetings he appeared in and then a mark for his team performance Denmark 1, Sweden 2, etc.. This went in the pattern of for example: Australia, Crump (top average) 4, Adams (2nd best average) 4.2, Wiltshire (third best average 4.4) etc. For the rest who didnt appeared, their mark was judged on their past as a WC rider, if they appeared in the last couple of years and would be under consideration for a spot, they scored 10 pts. If they were neither of these 12 pts. SWC Qualifiers also applied. Zabik also got special WC mark because of the under-21 win, he scored 8 in this section, although other riders Lindgren and Lindback appeared in the under-21 grand final, their WC mark was better than for prepared than the special under-21 mark. So after all this, criteria the rider has a number of points and it goes in order of the lowest. One thing I didnt include in these rankings were National Championships. Why? Well the rankings are based upon other international riders, so for example Zagar who constantly wins his Slovenian title shouldnt gain an unfair advantage on his international counterparts who have far more difficult fields. I understand this could apply to the SWC, Zagar have to ride for his country will struggle to get in the main event but I couldnt think of a way to deal with that issues and any suggestions would be greatly appeciated. There is also an unfair advantage to the GP riders, although they are arguably and generally the best in the world. BSI pick the riders and sometimes its not on ability but nationality and marketablity. The same with SWC, as its the authorities who pick the riders to gain smaller points. Again, any solutions to this matter would be appreciated greatly as it would be getting a more accurate rankings. Rankings in the next post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzman Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 (edited) The Top Twenty-Five (Position/Rider/Nationality/Score) 1. Jason Crump/AUS/6 2. Hans Andersen/DEN/7 3. Nicki Pedersen/DEN/9.2 4. Leigh Adams/AUS/12.2 5. Greg Hancock/USA/14 6. Andreas Jonsson/SWE/15 7. Jaroslaw Hampel/POL/21.2 8. Tomasz Gollob/POL/23 9. Bjarne Pedersen/DEN/25.4 =10. Wieslaw Jagus/POL/28.8 =10. Peter Karlsson/SWE/28.8 12. Antonio Lindback/SWE/33.2 13. Scott Nicholls/GB/35 14. Rune Holta/POL/36 15. Ryan Sullivan/AUS/36.6 16. Matej Zagar/SLO/37 17. Piotr Protasiewicz/POL/37.6 18. Lee Richardson/GB/38.2 19. Janusz Kolodziej/POL/39.9 20. Seb Ulamek/POL/40.4 21. Niels Kristian-Iversen/DEN/40.8 22. Jesper B.Jensen/DEN/41 23. Todd Wiltshire/AUS/42.4 24. Mark Loram/GB/42.6 25. Chris Harris/GB/45.8 Edited October 2, 2006 by Hazzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzman Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 Just to add on the league averages, for any rider racing in the lower leagues of the big 3 their average was 'weighed' accordingly to the strength of the league. Polish Liga 1- 70% Swedish Alle...-60% Premier League-50% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boardrider Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 No great shocks in that list, except perhaps Lee Richardson being so high? It occured to me that the US will disappear off the world stage once Greg hangs up his helmet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzman Posted October 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 No great shocks in that list, except perhaps Lee Richardson being so high? It occured to me that the US will disappear off the world stage once Greg hangs up his helmet <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He has great averages in both of the Swedish and Polish leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willp Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 thanks for that hazzman, does anybody know if fim produce any offical rankings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subedei Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Just to add on the league averages, for any rider racing in the lower leagues of the big 3 their average was 'weighed' accordingly to the strength of the league. Polish Liga 1- 70% Swedish Alle...-60% Premier League-50% <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are the main leagues weighted similarly? For example Ekstraliga 100%, Elitserien 90%, Elite League 80%. If not, then I believe that the Elite League carries undue weight in the rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzman Posted October 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Are the main leagues weighted similarly? For example Ekstraliga 100%, Elitserien 90%, Elite League 80%. If not, then I believe that the Elite League carries undue weight in the rankings. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No I didnt do that something to ponder. The Elitserien and Ekstraliga are probably the same degree of quality. I have watched meetings from both leagues and it was of similar quality. I am sure someone here also said that the riders find Sweden hardest but Polish the most competitive and enjoyable. The averages combined and are in fact a more truer picture of who is a better rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 The Elitserien and Ekstraliga are probably the same degree of quality. I have watched meetings from both leagues and it was of similar quality. I am sure someone here also said that the riders find Sweden hardest but Polish the most competitive and enjoyable. A few years ago, I did a comparison of the relative averages of riders who rode in more than one league. It wasn't totally scientific as the heat formats are not the same, but in general, the British Elite League, Polish Ekstraliga and Swedish Elitserien worked-out about the same level. If anything, the figures indicated the Polish league was tougher, with the Swedish league weaker, but the differences were negligible. I would say that the British Elite League is probably now weaker than it was, but equally I'd say the same about the Polish Ekstraliga. The Swedish Elitserien is probably the highest standard these days, but again I don't think there's much in it. For reference, the standards between these three major leagues and the Danish League was about 80%, and with the German and Czech League about 66%. These figures were less accurate though as fewer riders compete in these as well as the major leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Makes you wonder why there's no "official" world ranking published. If it's good enough for golf, tennis and countless other sports, why not speedway? Apart from anything else, it might help to reduce the vast gulf between the GP circus and bread-and-butter league speedway, the importance of which is frequently underestimated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Makes you wonder why there's no "official" world ranking published. There was an attempt to introduce official FIM rankings a few years ago, but they seem to have fallen by the wayside. The obvious question is what's the point of rankings unless they're actually used for something, and even then, you need to be careful not to undermine the prestige of existing competitions. To a large extent, the SGP standings should be the world rankings, although their credibility is now somewhat undermined by the closed shop nature of the SGP circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 (edited) How about GP seedings? That would give riders an incentive to do well in all competitions. Edited October 4, 2006 by AndyM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south coast robin Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 No great shocks in that list, except perhaps Lee Richardson being so high? It occured to me that the US will disappear off the world stage once Greg hangs up his helmet <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's really p****d me off , Rico and Ulamek being so high in the rankings , would have been higher if they had performed better for Swindon ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Makes you wonder why there's no "official" world ranking published. If it's good enough for golf, tennis and countless other sports, why not speedway? Apart from anything else, it might help to reduce the vast gulf between the GP circus and bread-and-butter league speedway, the importance of which is frequently underestimated. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They did a World Rankings in about 2000 and printed it in the Speedway Star. It was a bloody joke as National Champions were given extra credit so people like Phillipe Berge (rode for IoW and had a spell at Peterborough) who were PL 8 point riders were ending up in the top 30 on the back of being the top French dude when in reality they were 80th at least! There were loads fo iregularities with the Swedes, Poles and Brits outside of the top 5 or 6 in there Nation far too low and some odd Fins, Germans, Russians etc far too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Bee Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 I remember the world rankings in the speedway star. Not sure how they did it but they were rather ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 They did a World Rankings in about 2000 and printed it in the Speedway Star. It was a bloody joke as National Champions were given extra credit so people like Phillipe Berge (rode for IoW and had a spell at Peterborough) who were PL 8 point riders were ending up in the top 30 on the back of being the top French dude when in reality they were 80th at least! There were loads fo iregularities with the Swedes, Poles and Brits outside of the top 5 or 6 in there Nation far too low and some odd Fins, Germans, Russians etc far too high. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which illustrates that it hasn't been weighted effectively to account for the relative strength of the different leagues and tournaments. Golf and tennis rank tournaments, so it shouldn't be rocket science to do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 (edited) TBH, I don't think it's worth it. They'll pay someone (or some group) many thousadns to come up with a way of working it out, wasting money better spent elsewhere in the sport and for what? Who cares who is the 27th best rider in the World? No dount we'd all argue with it, disagree with it and say how wrong ti is anyway, I doubt anyone anywhere would agree with it! It would be flawed as for a start the top 15 would HAVE to be the 15 GP riders on the nominations look like a farce (which they are really, I guess) and make BSI look stupid for picking the wrong riders. Edited October 4, 2006 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Meynell Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 Golf and tennis rank tournaments, so it shouldn't be rocket science to do well. There are still disagreements about the ranking of players who compete in a lot of events, versus those who do well in the major tournaments. However, rankings in golf and tennis are important because those sport do not have world championships as such, and the rankings provide access to certain tournaments at certain entry points. With speedway, I agree it probably could be done, but there's no obvious purpose to it, possibly other than to determine entry to the SGP. Personally though, I'd prefer to see a SGP structure that gave every rider in the world the opportunity to qualify for the SGP the same season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted October 4, 2006 Report Share Posted October 4, 2006 It might settle a few arguments, if nothing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Know Posted October 5, 2006 Report Share Posted October 5, 2006 The Top Twenty-Five (Position/Rider/Nationality/Score) 1. Jason Crump/AUS/6 2. Hans Andersen/DEN/7 3. Nicki Pedersen/DEN/9.2 4. Leigh Adams/AUS/12.2 5. Greg Hancock/USA/14 6. Andreas Jonsson/SWE/15 7. Jaroslaw Hampel/POL/21.2 8. Tomasz Gollob/POL/23 9. Bjarne Pedersen/DEN/25.4 =10. Wieslaw Jagus/POL/28.8 =10. Peter Karlsson/SWE/28.8 12. Antonio Lindback/SWE/33.2 13. Scott Nicholls/GB/35 14. Rune Holta/POL/36 15. Ryan Sullivan/AUS/36.6 16. Matej Zagar/SLO/37 17. Piotr Protasiewicz/POL/37.6 18. Lee Richardson/GB/38.2 19. Janusz Kolodziej/POL/39.9 20. Seb Ulamek/POL/40.4 21. Niels Kristian-Iversen/DEN/40.8 22. Jesper B.Jensen/DEN/41 23. Todd Wiltshire/AUS/42.4 24. Mark Loram/GB/42.6 25. Chris Harris/GB/45.8 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That cannot be right, hans second best rider in the world. Best not let unlucky for some scott no 13 see this or should i get the red rag out now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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